Well I got back to the rig after 14 months. The house batteries were just fine, connected them and started the generator. Checked water and away they went.

The engine would not start, dash lites come on then go off after the initial check. The solenoid near the front was cliking away.

The mechanic came by, went under the rig and tried to jump the starter with starter cables. Said there was no response so the starter was bad.

Told me it could be $1500 to replace. So I am waiting for a second opinion now. I checked on line and a starter is about $200 to $300 depending on what site I look at. And if they take one or two house to put it in I could expect $500 to replace.

Seems that if the starter did not fire with the power cables connected that it needs to have gone bad????? Any other suggestions before I change it.

The rest of the rig seems to be in good shape, all things seem to work just fine excepting a flashlight and a florescent light.

But then....

Some maybe's based on little information.

On some HD starters you can not use the chassis as a ground. The starter has it own ground
connection.

You may need to turn the starter a bit. Brushes not making good contact with commutator.

Incompenate mechanic

Tom,

Do you have power to the rest of your chassis? Is it just the starter that won't engage? I had an occasion where my starter didn't engage, but it was the Intellitec Battery Interrupt Relay. It is located under your bed on the engine compartment wall.

I verified it was this device (which uses magnets to swing a large metal pendulum to make contact or not) by removing the battery lead from the non-battery power side and connecting it to the battery lead side. This essentially eliminates the Interrupt capability.

Also, is there any way you're trying to start it in gear and the power management system is not allowing power to the starter?

I know you said your mechanic tried applying power, but as Gary pointed out these big diesels can defy normal practice.

Finally, in regard to your mechanic, is this a 12V or 24V stater and what voltage did he apply?

We had to replace one about a year ago and the price ended up around $550 including labour. Was not that difficult, but because it is so heavy it required a helper from above to hold it in place with a rope.

Bud

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Loughney:
The mechanic came by, went under the rig and tried to jump the starter with starter cables. Said there was no response so the starter was bad.

Told me it could be $1500 to replace. So I am waiting for a second opinion now. I checked on line and a starter is about $200 to $300 depending on what site I look at. And if they take one or two house to put it in I could expect $500 to replace.

I don't think I like this mechanic. I would pay for a second opinion, he sounds like he is trying to take advantage of you. Price is "Way Too High."

Chances are, you don't need a starter.

A trick that has worked many times on gas engined starters that sat, hit it (reasonably gently) with a hammer! For this Cummins starter you may need a bigger hammer, but what would you have to lose.

quote:

Originally posted by noble97monarch:
For this Cummins starter you may need a bigger hammer, but what would you have to lose.

Excellent advice! 5 pound hammer. Just make sure that you hit the case of the starter and not the solenoid.

Here is a picture of the starter. The solenoid is on the top - stay away from it.

Even if hitting it works you might consider removing it and taking it to a starter/alternator rebuilder. The cost would be a fraction of the $1500 and with new bearings, brushes, turning the rotor and a new Bendix and solenoid you will have a new one. There is always at least one such shop in just about every town and city.

The second guy came by and checked things out. This was Pete, been workin on these thins for 30 yar now....

He went under and could not get it to fire, thought batteries were weak, but tested fine, asked if there was a disconnect, yep right here.. Funny only got 6 volts on the other side of the disconnect. Came up and looked at the remote disconnect, which I had reset after connecting the batteries.

However..... I noticed when I did that the light was sort of flikering on the engine batteries, but paid no attention.

He reset the button, hit the key and away it went.

So all the power up, power down, clicking and stuff was due to having only half the voltage, enough to light things up, but not enough to make anything happy.

$270 total for a simple finger push...

Happy to be running however.

Now to change some window glass on the side of the coach, seal failed and two windows are really foggy.

Thanks for the help.

That brings back a story from the early days of electrical power.

In a small town with a new electrical plant, the dynamo quit generating. The locals were at a loss, so the manager telegraphed the factory. (This was before telephones & e-mail.)

In due course, a man arrived carrying only a large ball peen hammer. He carefully examined the dynamo, then measured a precise distance from the top of the dynamo, and another precise distance from the end.

He marked the intersection of the two measurements, gave the machine a lusty whack with his ball peen hammer and it immediately started generating.

In the next mail, the manager got a bill for $1010.50. (This was in the days when $1G was real money.) He was outraged at the cost for such a simple job, and wrote back demanding an itemized bill.

In due course, he received this bill:

1. For striking dynamo with hammer - $0.50
2. For mechanic's time & travel -$10.00
3. For knowing where to strike -$1000.00
Total -$1010.50

No remarks, please, that story was old when I heard it.

quote:

Originally posted by olroy:
3. For knowing where to strike -$1000.00

Here are 2 quick examples of this same scenario but for different items. Brake Problems & Injection Pump

True Story... The most I ever got for using a hammer to fix a truck was around $550 and that was on Christmas.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Loughney:
...asked if there was a disconnect, yep right here.. Funny only got 6 volts on the other side of the disconnect. Came up and looked at the remote disconnect, which I had reset after connecting the batteries.

You might have a weak disconnect. If it happens again, and resetting it doesn't work, you might need to jump it out. If you don't feel comfortable doing this then pay someone to change your disconnect out.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill N.Y.:
Chances are, you don't need a starter.

The hammer thing also works on high current relays that will not open.

The BAE 146 airliner had a Lucas electric starter that was notorious for needing percussive therapy. On numerous occasions one deft hammer stroke saved a fully-loaded flight from being canceled.

I was paid hourly, so couldn't use Roy's billing logic to get a bonus.

I don't know if this applies to the starter in question, but on Delco starters, the need for percussion often indicates a dirty commutator or insufficient brush spring tension caused by brushes worn short.

When the brushes get really short, the spring tension arm bottoms out and there is no more brush tension. You can get on the road again by disassembling and disabling the bottomed-out stop, but that sets you up for the tension arm to bite into the commutator as the brushes wear a little further, so it is a purely temporary measure, and must be restored to original ASAP.

Either way, Tom K's advice on removing and disassembling the starter is the way to go. If nothing else, a commutator cleanup and a little helvetic file work on the solenoid contacts would be beneficial.

A few weeks into this trip the coach will start just fine or complain a little. Then in So California it does not want to turn over, just groans and it had only been shut off for 2 hours. I use the emergency jump and it starts. Go back to Auto Zone where I bought the batteries three years ago. They give me 50% and have the batteries in stock. So it is now 8pm, they close at 8pm, I take the two fr**gen heavy batteries out, and swap them. Clean the contacts and put them back together. Now the rig will not fire an is doing similar to the original problem which is acting like it has a weak battery.

The intellic relays clik on and off, but checking current across has a weak high/low voltage. I get it running and camp at the nearest RV garage. In the morning it will not start, and I am already there. Guy takes a look, checks same as me and figures some issue with the intellic relays. He has one in stock, but tells me to disconnect it and just jump the wires together with a bolt.

Starts just fine, voltage at the dash is 12.7 volts and before never above 12.0, I also bought the relay and will put it in as time permits.

So the relay was not making full contact and when a load went across it it heated up and lost what little contact it had.

So now I have two new batteries and a feeling that things will be well.

Went to Sequoia, south end, campground too small for the 38ft rig, could not get up to the trees, left the park, scraped some body work on hidden rocks. Shoot....

I have a pro weather awning which was caught in a wind at Death Valley. Some near RVers tied it down in the wind, but it was a auto retract and i think it hurt the motor to be tied down in the wind. It will go up, but will not go down. The motor will wind up but not down. They were helping me out, but did not know it was auto retract. Don't know what to check?

Did make it to Kings Valley and the General Grant tree, had 5 feet of new snow the day before (when we were stuck in Death valley) and was really pretty.

Decided to travel to Hwy 1 and go up to Vancouver along the coast, rather than the Mts. It is too early in the season, my feet are cold.

Tom

quote:

Originally posted by Bill N.Y.:
You might have a weak disconnect. If it happens again, and resetting it doesn't work, you might need to jump it out. If you don't feel comfortable doing this then pay someone to change your disconnect out.

Sometimes it's almost scary.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Loughney:
Guy takes a look, checks same as me and figures some issue with the intellic relays. He has one in stock, but tells me to disconnect it and just jump the wires together with a bolt.

So the relay was not making full contact and when a load went across it it heated up and lost what little contact it had.

I sure hope that takes care of it.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Loughney:
I have a pro weather awning which was caught in a wind at Death Valley. Some near RVers tied it down in the wind, but it was a auto retract and i think it hurt the motor to be tied down in the wind... They were helping me out, but did not know it was auto retract.

Sometimes helpful people cause more damage. They mean well, but it doesn't always work out well.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Loughney:
It is too early in the season, my feet are cold.

It should only get warmer from here... at least that's what Al Gore told me.

Tom,

See the Third Post in this series. I thought it might be the Intertec relay/disconnect. Just eliminate it for now. Take the battery side wire and jump over to the other side so there is always full battery power. The Intertec thing just disconnects for extended stays where you don't want your batteries slowly discharging. You could also just add a manual Perko disconnect, essentially the same deal.