Hi,
I found a Barth 24 or I think it's a 25 1990 or 1991 with a Ford 460. I believe it's a Regal model.
Can anyone tell me if this engine would be fuel injection ?
Any idea of MPG ( highway ) for this unit ?
Please any pros /cons on this model.
Thank you and be well.
Ed

I think it will have early fuel injection. They are more like electronic carburetors than true metered injection like you find on more modern vehicles.

My guess on mileage, 10 MPG. They are good motors, similar to the GM 454, but seem to last longer in the HD applications I've seen these gas big blocks used in. What tranny is behind it?

I'll check on the tranny.
It's on consignment,so I'll unable to talk with the owners.
Would 9-10k be a good price for this unit ( 65k miles)assuming it's in decent condition ?
ED

I'd say 9 grand would be a very good price, if it's in very good condition and the expensive things all check out. Fridge, AC [rooftop], Generator, brakes, and tires are all things that can add significantly to the price if you have to replace them before you can enjoy the coach. As Corey said, don't expect more than 10 mpg. That way, if you get better, it's a bonus!
As with all Barths,a couple of pictures and the data tag would help us give info to you.

quote:

Originally posted by noble97monarch:
They are more like electronic carburetors than true metered injection like you find on more modern vehicles.

You might be thinking about GM's earlier Fuel Injection Engines from this era.

The 460 in my 1991 Ford Powered coach has (MPFI) Multi-Port Fuel injection coupled to a C6 Transmission. Each cylinder has it's own injector located just above the intake port of the cylinder.

My 1988 Ford F350 Service truck also had the same MPFI on its 460 engine.

Jack's 1989 Barth has a carburetor on his 460.

The earliest case I can find of a fuel injected 460 was tag#9006-3676-28JB-5 built by Barth on 6/25/90

I have talked to several 460 powered coach owners and it seems that Oshkosh/John Deere started to install the 460 MPFI somewhere around the mid 1990.

Is this a pusher or puller - Engine in the front or rear?

Get me an image of the data tag and I'll try to research it for you. Send it to bill_ny@barthmobile.com

Pros: Usually have a bigger storage area below the floorline - Usually, the interior height is slightly taller compared to a GM powered Regal - Easier Starting

quote:

You might be thinking about GM's earlier Fuel Injection Engines from this era.

You're right. In my mind I was thinking of the more familiar GM TBI, but I was also trying to relay that early fuel injection even when multi-port, were not very efficient on the fuel saving side. The upside is that they don't have five computers and 20 sensors to make em run!

A friend of mine runs a Porsche shop, he just replaced the 4 O2 sensors on a Boxter to the tune of better than $500. And he put on the generic ones to save the customer money. Ouch

Anyway, one big advantage I see with any injection system is that the fuel can't evaporate as quickly from the system due to air not being present.

quote:

Originally posted by noble97monarch:
The upside is that they don't have five computers and 20 sensors to make em run!

Let me count the ways...

ACCS A/C Cycling Switch aka A/C Compressor cycling sensor
ACT Air Charge Temperature sensor
BP Barometric Pressure sensor
CANP Canister Purge solenoid
ECT Engine Coolant Temperature sensor
EGO Exhaust Gas Oxygen sensor
EGRC EGR Control solenoid
EGRV EGR Vent solenoid
EVP EGR Position sensor
EVR EGR Valve Regulator
FPM Fuel Pump Monitor
HEGO Heated EGO sensor
ITS Idle Tracking Switch aka Idle Validation Switch
KS Knock Sensor
MAF Mass Air Flow sensor
MAP Manifold absolute pressure switch
PFE Pressure Feedback EGR sensor/circuit
PSPS Power Steering Pressure Switch
TP/TPS Throttle Position Sensor
TTS Transmission Temperature Switch
VSC Vehicle Speed Control aka VSS or Vehicle Speed Sensor

This is what a typical EEC-IV system covered for 1990'ish. Notice that the fuel injectors, fuel pump or the distributor isn't even included.

For the pump you have a signal wire going to a micro relay sending the power to the in-tank or frame mounted fuel pump. This is further controlled by a rollover protection sensor switch.

The Distributor has a (I think) a "Hall Effect" pickup sensor that sends and receives signals from the ECU and controls the spark to the Coil.

Stuff like the power steering and a/c switch won't make it run bad, it could however cause a low idle or a stall condition if it powers down too much. Also, one sensor shorting out will lower the 5v reference voltage to the other sensors.

And all I get is a silly light on my dash that says E.U.L. that tells you to fix the engines electronics/sensors so you can...
Extended Useful Life.

Nope, you're right, it does not have 5 computers.

Here's a quick post from last year when I had the EUL on.

BTW: Does it have an EUL on the dash ED? - If it does, it is MPFI. If it doesn't, it still might be.

When I get more time, I will make a list of what my carbed 84 has. It might be as much.

Whenever I have alphabet soup, I think of hooking up all my smog hoses and wires after the engine swap.

Most of my FI experience is with VWs. In that case the later Digifonics are far superior to the earlier CIS injection. It is one case where I will admit newer is better.

Well that was quick,the Barth was sold yesterday.
I hope one of the members got it.
Pretty sure it sold for $9500K
Thanks again,
Ed

Was it this one?

http://www.carsforsale.com/use...ARTH_BARTH_117609194





I talked to them on Monday and got the data tag number sent to me last night.



I was going to shoot you a PM today to see if this was the one before I put it up under sightings.