I have a 92 Barth Breakaway 32'. I've had it for a year and it has 190 hp (not sure on trans but has 4 gears)
My problem is that I tow a 24' enclosed trailer (6500 lbs) and am at 2200 rpm and 55 mph. The engine is screaming! When I went to KY through the mountains, I was maxing at 25 mph up the hills at 2200 rpm.
I would like to upgrade my Barth so the turtles stop passing me wherever I go.
Does anyone have websites or advice for me?
Another thing: Am I overloading her with towing 6500 lbs?
Thanks for your time!

Most cost effective solution would be to sell the
Breakaway and buy something with the 8.3L Cummins and the more modern six speed Allison, you are just WAY underpowered for what you are trying to do.

Many Breakaways don't have a GCVW rating. You might find one out by calling Spartan.

You may be able to uprate the engine to 215-230HP; I thought the 32's had the 230HP standard.

My 8.3 Turbo/Aftercooled 6 Spd Allison in a 34' 1997 Barth is adequate towing a 16' enclosed trailer loaded with motorcycles. When I say adequate, I mean I really wish I had more torque and the big mountains do knock me down eventually, but it is live-able. Generally, I'm in better shape than the TTs climbing the big hills, but I will get passed by the late model RVs boating 500HP and such.

I always find there is a period of adjustment to recall how to drive the diesel. Patience, spacing, head of steam, are all terms I normally don't need to employ in my other vehicles.

From your description, I believe, yes, you are overloading your tow package. Much will depend on how heavy your trailer is loaded, but you are asking a lot from anything under 300HP with more gears and the suspension/frame/braking to match.

I agree with Corey; there's only so much that can be coaxed from 5.9 liters,and power isn't the only consideration in towing.

I pull a 3500# trailer with my 92 30' breakaway and it wopuld do 45 up long hills before I put the Banks Stinger kit in it. I'm currently looking into the Allison 2000 trans to better use the power. The 542 trans is too slow in 3rd and slows too much in 4th (i have a 411 ratio in the rear with 19.5 wheels) so the EGT and then the water temps rise. I'm sure the new trans will keep the motor in its sweet spot. I do think 6500 lbs is too much because i can make the spartan chassis flex in the back by jumping on the tongue of the trailer and I only add 150lbs to the trailer weight.

I also agree with Corey, and Rusty, those kinds of weights to pull are crying for well over 300 HP. the other aspect is STOPPING, that is a lot of momentum even with trailer braking. I certainly wouldn't so it!!

quote:

Originally posted by apoccia:
(i have a 411 ratio in the rear with 19.5 wheels)

I am reasonably certain that you have 3.73 rear gears, The standard rear gear set that came with the 190HP Cummins, 542 trans from Spartan was a Dana 80 with 3.73:1.

With that combination 3.73:1 AND 19.5 tires, the maximum speed would calc out to ~73 MPH @ 2800RPM. With 4.11 rear gears and 19.5 tires, that would calc out to a maximum of 66 MPH @ 2800 RPM. As you have previously stated that you can run 70+ MPH on the flats, that would indicate 3.73:1 rear gears.

The reason I bring this up is if you are looking at the Allison 2000 transmission, you would see virtually no difference except for top end. As a matter of fact, 2nd gear in the Allison 2000 would be worse for acceleration (pulling power)as it is higher then the 542. 1.90:1(2000) vs. 2.25:1(542). The other gears are very close between the two trans and of course the Allison 2000 has 5th which is O/D but that would only change the cruise RPM and top speed.

Now, by changing both the trans and rear gears (Allison 2000 and 4.1 gears) you would see and improvement in both acceleration (pulling power in 1st thru 4th) and top end. (or lower RPM at a specific cruise speed in 5th)

EDIT:
One thing I forgot to mention, with the Dana 80 diff, there is a thin case and thick case, the break point was at 4.1 ratio. In other words, it may not be possible to replace the 3.73 gears with 4.1 gears without replacing the entire case. 3.73 and lower numeric ratios has one case and 4.1 and higher numeric ratios had the other. This varies with application so it may not follow with the diff case that Spartan used, but something to be careful of before $$$ are spent.

HTH

I will need to check again, but i'm fairly certain that the Spartan build Card states 4.1 rear ratio and I am 100% certain the guy at the Cummins/Allison diesel shop told me 4.1 although he could be wrong. The 66 mph might be the true speed i'm traveling if my speedo is reading wrong (my tach currently is not working). I was told the new trans would make a huge difference...I guess I have some research to do. I'll report back what i find.

Here is a reference table that I did some time ago comparing transmissions, ratios and speed. May save you some time. Please note there are many versions of the Allison, I pick the common versions to point out what issue may come about. Note also that the Allison 2500 was offered as a 5 speed or a 6 speed depending which option was selected by the OEM. I am not entirely sure if a 5 speed can be easily converted to a 6 speed, Gary Carter was looking into that. AFAIK The MD3060 was never offered in a Barth with 3.73 rear gears and would not be a good combination.

Comparing the speeds (calculated at TOG =2800 RPM)you will see there is virtually no difference of speeds in each gear except 1st in the 2100 and 2nd in the 2500. The 2100 would be really a dog in 1st, the 2500 would not have quite the same pulling power in 2nd as the 542, but compares favorably with the MD3060. No difference in speeds mean no difference in torque multiplication, no difference in acceleration!

Gary with his Allison 2000 (not sure what version he has or the 1st gear ratio) has nearly the same top speed in 5th as I do in 6th. He has 3.73 rear gears. He also did not gain any improvement in low gears other then being able to handle his huge increase in HP he has done, that the 542 would not handle. The 2000 series also has a lock up torque converter (as does the MD3060) for better MPG and engine braking

Bottom line is you will see virtually no difference in acceleration between these transmissions 1st thru 4th gears. The advantage of the 2500 and the MD3060 is you can go to 4.1 rear gears or even higher (numerically) to get better torque multiplication, better acceleration, and still have lower engine speeds at cruise with the double overdrive.



Hope this helps

Just to add my 2 cents here....when speaking to some Spartan employees at a motorcycle show (they were showing off a new toy hauler that had a Spartan chassis), they told me that the 190HP Cummins was NOT the problem in our Barth. They said that motor, STOCK, was plenty to do whatever it needed to do including towing a 6K trailer or pulling a toad on any terrain. It may not be the fastest, but the motor would handle the job. The problem was the Allison 4 speed trans. They said if I did a trans upgrade (and please hang in there Gary as I will get to you one day to talk to you about your upgrade once I can financally afford it) that our Breakaway would be able to handle just about anything we would want it to do. I presently will tow a 5-6K trailer with our Breakaway on occasion. I just don't go thru the hills and mountains with it. As it is right now, I can handle flat land towing without any real problems. And yes, excellent trailer brakes are a must if you are going to do this anywhere, flat land or hills/mountains! I just need to struggle to get over those bridges out of New Jersey and then stay along the east coast away from the mountains to the immediate west. Without the trailer, I can handle moderate mountains but have not tried any long or steep grades because of my fear of overheating. But that's another story on another posting.....

quote:

Originally posted by MWrench:
Here is a reference table that I did some time ago comparing transmissions, ratios and speed.

Ed, I don't see the 545 there. How different is it from the 542? I have heard of the 542 being upgraded to 545 specs, but the guy didn't have any particulars.

Bill, the 545 is basically in the 500 series and has the same ratios as the 542, the only difference that I could tell was that the rating was increased to 30K lbs max where the 542 was rated to 20K. The max torque and HP input is the same. This is probably due to the fact that the stock pan on the 545 is 5.3 inches and the trans capacity was 20 qts. The 542 stock pan was 3.8 inches and the capacity was 15 qts. Overheating was an issue in the 542!

Allison offered a kit to convert the 542 to basically a 545 and all it was, was a new 5.3 inch pan.

As it turns out I have 2 Spartan build cards. One is a photo copy where someone hand wrote some changes in pen and the one that looks original says 3.73 ratio and the other one has 4.11 hand written. Now what? It seems to me changing the trans wouldn't make any sense unless the rear had a REALLY LOW ratio so the 6 speeds could be utilized through a 0-80mph range. This would give better pulling through each gear, better top end, and keep the engine in the sweet spot on virtually any hill. As it stands now 3rd gear is way too slow for any highway hills so I can't drop down to keep the rpm up and the engine cool. Maybe what I have is as good as it gets?

apoccia, when all else fails, actually determine the rear end ratio the old fashion way. Jack up one rear wheel off the ground. Make sure the coach is safely blocked. Mark the drive shaft and the rear wheel positions. Turn the rear wheel one full revolution while counting the drive shaft revolutions. That is the Rear end ratio.

Nick

quote:

Originally posted by Nick Cagle:
Jack up one rear wheel off the ground... Turn the rear wheel one full revolution.

If you jack up both wheels and it is a posi then you count the rear end ration with only one turn.

If it isn't a posi rear, jack up one wheel position and turn the wheel twice. That would be your rear end ratio.

How many times the driveshaft turns around will be your rear end ratio.

Here is a blurb from a few years ago. It talks about upgrading from a 4 speed to a 6 speed too.