On one of my stumblings into the chat room, just before everybody cleared out, we were talking about electrical tape.

Someone praised 3M and I said I was unhappy with it, as the adhesive became soft and gummy and no longer stayed stuck. Someone (I forgot who) asked what number it was, and, of course, I didn't know. He went on to praise 3M 44 or 88, I think.

Anyway, today I ran across another annoying 3M gummy loosie-goosie tape job and remembered the question.

The tape that doesn't stay stuck is 3M Temflex 1700. Turns out this is not their best tape. It is described by them as "The economical solution for less demanding indoor jobs. This black, 7 mil economy-grade vinyl tape serves as a general purpose tape."

That description does not include automotive uses where heat, age, and, God Forbid, petroleum vapors are part of the environment. However, I have had it come undone in a number of uses, many indoors. What I find particularly vexing is how messy it is when it is unwound or cut off, or a wire bundle opened up. Messy black crap that sticks to everything.

This kind of busts my bubble on 3M. I thought all their adhesives stuck and stayed stuck, and never bought any other brands of anything if 3M was available.

The sad thing is, I bought a whole carton of it at a favorable price, so there is a lot of it here. Maybe at the next Barth Rangers rally we attend I will donate six-packs as raffle or bingo prizes. Or party favors for gearheads.

Anyway, I would like recommendations for the next time I buy tape.

Was it 44 or 88 that was so highly recommended, or what?

Bill, I believe it may have been me you were talking to. Most prople are very unaware of the differences in elec. tape but as you have observed there is quite a bit of difference.. The "cheap" Temflex was made by a company (prob chinese) that 3M bought out and is of a very low quality. It should only be used as a temporary tape that will be removed in a very short time or it unglues and makes a mess... Scotch DOES make very good products, thier 33 is one of them, and 33+ is even moreso althought probably a bit more expensive then plain 33. I'm not sure if it was Scotch or Plymouth that made the 88 Premium cold weather tape but that is an excellent product if you can find it... A good rule of thumb is to "stretch" the tape to check its quality. A good tape will "stretch" to 3/4 of its width (even in colder weather)without breaking whereas sumthing like temflex or the other junk tapes will break/snap before even getting that far. Scotch 33+ will probably stretch to 1/2 of its width w-out breaking. The "cheap" tapes are just that, "You get what you pay for" comes to mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Patch1st:
Bill, I believe it may have been me you were talking to. Most prople are very unaware of the differences in elec. tape but as you have observed there is quite a bit of difference.. The "cheap" Temflex was made by a company (prob chinese) that 3M bought out and is of a very low quality. It should only be used as a temporary tape that will be removed in a very short time or it unglues and makes a mess... Scotch DOES make very good products, thier 33 is one of them, and 33+ is even moreso althought probably a bit more expensive then plain 33. I'm not sure if it was Scotch or Plymouth that made the 88 Premium cold weather tape but that is an excellent product if you can find it... A good rule of thumb is to "stretch" the tape to check its quality. A good tape will "stretch" to 3/4 of its width (even in colder weather)without breaking whereas sumthing like temflex or the other junk tapes will break/snap before even getting that far. Scotch 33+ will probably stretch to 1/2 of its width w-out breaking. The "cheap" tapes are just that, "You get what you pay for" comes to mind.

I love this place. Barth owners are smarter, have prettier wives, smarter kids, greener lawns and their dogs mind better.

Actually, the Temflex stretches pretty well. I just stretched a piece over twice its length without breakage. The test was terminated owing to an injured thumb and poor traction on the Band Aid.

The Temflex's ability to stretch and conform is about the only good I can say about it. However, its poor adhesive means it will retract and loosen itself if stretched too much. In this case, the tape is way stronger than the adhesive. I would like a tape that stretches to conform but doesn't try to retract and come unstuck. Certainly a better adhesive would help, but I wonder if a different vinyl compound would also help. Even thinner vinyl would probably help, too.

Very enlightening thread! I am about to go install a new battery terminal connector on my RV and planned on covering any exposed wire with electrical tape. I know I bought some 3M some time back (probably one of those cheap 6-packs) thinking it was the "good stuff" so I will definitely double check before I wrap it on and expect it to be fairly permanent...

quote:

Originally posted by scottydl:
I am about to go install a new battery terminal connector on my RV and planned on covering any exposed wire with electrical tape.

I coat the connection with Shoe Goo (it retains its flexibility better than Liquid Electrical Tape) and then adhesive lined shrink tubing. I get it on eBay. Then I touch up the edge of the tubing with Pro Flex, just to be sure I am on the Overkill train.

With apologies to Barry Goldwater, "Extremism in the defense against battery acid is no vice".

I buy red and use a permanent marker or cheap, easy to obtain tubing as an overlay when black is needed. The Krylon plastic spray black works pretty well, too. It really sticks to plastic.

It's not just a problem with electrical tape. I use 2" masking tape at my screenprint shop and we've noticed a real decline in quality of even the high end painters tape.

Wm.

Bill, Try putting that temflex in your fridge for an hour then do the stretch test again.. It will become very brittle when colder.... Anyway another trick I've always used it to break the tape off at the end of your wrap but free from touching anything, then let it retract to its original width (so it is relaxed) before wrapping the last inch or so of tape.. That will keep it from letting go on the end...

Jeez! All this great stuff to solve problems that have bugged me for years, & I'm too old & stiff & crippled up to use them anymore.

At work I found that electrical tape should never be used on wiring. We now only use shrink tubing for any electrical repairs. There are a variety of sizes and gages. Used correctly, it's there to stay. I use one of those heater / paint strippers that you get at Harbor Freight for the heat source. (Not a BIC lighter!).

I used this for all my battery connections and it is still permanently bonded after three years: Adhesive Lined Cross-Linked Heat Shrinkable Tape

The stretching properties of Scotch 33 are not just an indication of the quality of the product. For optimum adhesion the tape needs to be stretched to about 3/4 it's original width, this activates the chemicals to provide the best adhesion. If applied properly the tape will withstand most any vehicle application.

Don’t forget the golden rule of electrical tape – you need to cut it - not pull it until it snaps. If you tear it off the roll the end will not stick well and it will unravel.

As a point of interest - 3M makes an amazing tape that can be used to bond a wide array of materials together see:

3M Corp. #4941 VHB (very high bond) double coated tape. VHB tape is used in the construction and aircraft industries as a replacement for rivets. It provides a 20 lb. continuous bond that resists oil, solvents, heat and vibration.

3M™ VHB™ Tapes have the strength to replace rivets, spot welds, liquid adhesives and other permanent fasteners for a wide variety of applications.

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/po...racteristics/Strong/

Two short video demonstrations of VHB tape strength:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_fM5cqSODc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-DuNArOxFw

Originally saw this being used as a replacement for Secure Carry of handguns without a holster.

http://www.clipdraw.com/store/...5&action=show_detail

Having a roll of this in your Barth toolkit could come in handy for emergency repairs.

rb

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quote:

Originally posted by rb:
As a point of interest - 3M makes an amazing tape that can be used to bond a wide array of materials together see:

3M Corp. #4941 VHB (very high bond) double coated tape. VHB tape is used in the construction and aircraft industries as a replacement for rivets. It provides a 20 lb. continuous bond that resists oil, solvents, heat and vibration.

3M™ VHB™ Tapes have the strength to replace rivets, spot welds, liquid adhesives and other permanent fasteners for a wide variety of applications.

I still can't work up the nerve to use it to secure solar panels to the roof.

quote:

Originally posted by rb:
As a point of interest - 3M makes an amazing tape that can be used to bond a wide array of materials together see:

3M Corp. #4941 VHB (very high bond) double coated tape. VHB tape is used in the construction and aircraft industries as a replacement for rivets. It provides a 20 lb. continuous bond that resists oil, solvents, heat and vibration.

3M™ VHB™ Tapes have the strength to replace rivets, spot welds, liquid adhesives and other permanent fasteners for a wide variety of applications.

Having a roll of this in your Barth toolkit could come in handy for emergency repairs.

I carry this stuff on my service trucks and in my Barth toolkit too.

3M™ VHB™ Tape 4611 Dark Gray, 3/4 in x 36 yd

I have used it to hang stainless on the front of our service trucks for years. I do not like the look of rivets or carriage bolts on a nice piece of stainless.





All of these images shows the stainless mounted to the front of the body just behind the cab. Never has one fallen off. The bad part is you only get one shot at it so if you screw up you'll need to replace the stainless and maybe even repaint the piece it was trying to stick to.

In this image, I used it to attach the piece of White Dry Eraser Board to the bottom of pull down bed. No screws holding up the board. Just the double sided tape.



All of the fixtures, in our house, that came with double sided tape already installed gets scrapped off and I use the 3M Corp. #4941 VHB in its place. Never once has anything fallen or pulled off. I even use this stuff to hang rearview mirrors in daycab trucks with rear windows.

You always need to do a very good prep job. If you do not thoroughly clean both surfaces, before applying the tape, you could have a bonding issue.