Following the threads here about ebay and such I can see that the sales of units has all but stopped. Other sites have units listed for a long time.

So advice please, don't mean to step on any toes here but the advice so far has been rather good on this site.

I started out looking at beavers then barths. In my thrashing about I started looking at Prevosts and Bluebirds which were way, way, way out of my league.

Prices of nicer barths in the 1995-1998 range seem to be about $40-50,000. There is a 96 asking $75K and a 98 asking $54K.

I have found some (several) 1991-1993 Prevosts in the $100K range and several Bluebird Wanderlodge's 1992-3 vintage at $90,000.

Sure the prices are higher on the Prevost's but last year the same rigs were $180-200,000. The Barths have not seen that same drop in price yet.

Which is a better deal, the 1996 Barth at $50K or the 1993 Wanderlodge at $90K/1993 prevost at $100K.

All are quality rigs for sure and all seem well taken care of by the owners.

Tom

So many choices so little time!

The Barth of course! (yes I am biased). Lets face it they are all nice coaches. You can expect a continuing drop in price on the Wanderlodge and the Prevost...I believe it is because of the sheer amount of bells and whistles, (all of which break constantly due to lack of use) and repair prices will break the average American. I was also in the market for a Wanderlodge for a few years and my father talked me out of it...(not because he did not like the coach, (1983 36' pusher), but because of the constant maintenance expense to keep it in working order.) Keep in mind when you buy a new coach of this caliber, (Wanderlodge, Barth, or Prevost for that matter), you will spend at least $5,000 making it "your own". I say this because there is always something wrong that needs fixin, and the wife is sure to want to make a few changes and before you know it, the $5,000 + has left your wallet feeling the same way as it did at tax time. With a Barth at least you know your dollar is a little more secure, and you have a good working foundation. I think you should take a ride in both coaches and determine it for yourself. I will say I decided to go with my Barth coach after two $50,000 + bids on Wanderlodge units on ebay. I am not bad mouthing the Bird, but I will say I do not regret my far more economical decision to go with a coach that was a fraction of the cost (Bought for 7,800 cash), especialy when you consider the economy. Good luck!

The real issue with Bluebirds and any Prevost- (or for that matter, most bus-) based motorhome is that they have Detroit Diesel engines. These tend to require more maintenance and have lower fuel economy than Cummins or Cat.

If it were I, I'd be in the market for a Barth, Beaver, (some) Safaris, Foretravel, (some) Hawkins, or Cat- or Cummins-powered Bluebird. Note that many shorter last-century Bluebirds are pullers.

The concept I keep in mind is: "Will the coach fall apart faster than I can maintain it?" To me that becomes especially important if the coach will be stored for lengthy periods of time. A large number of SOBs have token steel (never seen one with galvanized) frames, but actually use a lot of untreated wood. Just a small leak can emerge as an expensive, time-consuming, repair. Some "upscale" Fleetwoods and Monacos and others claim "aluminum frame", but there's no details on material or frame spacing.

Another consideration is the number of gee-gaws the coach has, like slideouts, automatic awnings, etc. They don't do well just sitting.

Anyway, to answer the Barth vs. Wanderlodge vs. Prevost question, pick one. I'd prefer the Barth, but then I looked at about 150 motorhomes before snagging mine, and I wasn't interested in Prevosts due to the size and price. The Wanderlodges in my size and price range seemed dark and cave-like in the interior, but they were obviously older models.

A consideration is that the Ws and Ps are steel, and the weight advantage of the Barth (along with the lower center of gravity) enhances fuel economy and handling.

If I were choosing for you, it'd be Jeff P's Monarch, which is not only newer and cheaper than Mr. Moore's, but it has a diesel and not a propane genset.

OTOH
What is your intended use? Another post suggested the the motor home industry would have to change drastically or die. Do you want ownership of something that has no value? You may want to examine other ways of accomplishing your goals of housing while you're in the states. At some point, the cost of ownership becomes prohibitive. My Barth has become my office. I go out there a couple of times a month to do bills and once in a while, just to hang out. And if someone comes to visit, it's our extra bedroom. Except for Chatanooga, we're not able to go anywhere, and I wouldn't even be doing that if I didn't want to meet some of our fellow Barthers. Heck, just to take it for it's monthly 30 minute run costs $15. But it's worth the money just to drive it for 30 minutes.

eBay sales have continued to rely on "No Reserve" (The exceptions being where the initial bid is set above realism); that '87 40' Regency and one lone Navion (Sprinter chassis, M-B V6 diesel) are the sole sales where there was a rigid reserve.

Prices, even on new units, are in the "terlit". 2008-09 38-39' diesels are offered for just a bit over $100K...of course, many of those have the somewhat-wimpy-for-the-size Cummins 6.7L TD, but still...

Sellers still seem to believe that five photos and no detailed info will get potential buyers frothing at the mouth.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
eBay sales have continued to rely on "No Reserve" (The exceptions being where the initial bid is set above realism); that '87 40' Regency and one lone Navion (Sprinter chassis, M-B V6 diesel) are the sole sales where there was a rigid reserve.

The seller lowered the reserve on The Missouri Mule .

I made an offer on a 93 bluebird that was (still is) for sale at $20k above NADA. I offered the middle NADA price and the guy turned it down with no counter offer. He said that his coach was better than the NADA price. I don't think I have ever seen one for sale where the owner thinks his unit is worse than the NADA price.

BTW, Tom, did you get my PM?

The problem with NADA is that the data is already weeks (if not months) stale. Add to that Bluebird, Prevost, and Foretravel owners think NADA has no bearing on their coaches' value, and probably that their poop doesn't stink, either...

It'll be interesting to see if the next NADA, due out in a few weeks, reflects the true prices coaches are getting.

Winnebago reported third-quarter net income fell 73% to $3 million, or 10 cents a share, compared with the year-earlier $11.3 million or 35 cents a share. Revenue fell about 40% to $139.7 million from $231.7 million, hit by lower consumer spending amid high fuel prices and tight credit conditions.

Ouch!..Sign of the times.

Tom,
I too looked at Beavers and Wanderlodges prior to buying a Barth. I learned that Bluebird has had serious issues with the body panels on the later model Wanderlodges, many of them spending months back at the factory to be re-fitted and repainted. This may answer a question you will eventually ask around some late model fiberglass coaches, why do so many have new paint jobs??? Answer, factory warranty with disgruntled owners or sometimes "lemon law" vehicles being refurbished.

A friend of mine has a 1955 16' Airstream Bubble trailer which is now worth close to $20K. Most trailers of that era are now long scrapped, but quality construction and material lives on due to its shear usefulness. The aluminum construction of the Barth gives it a chance to reach the "Bubble's" status, but I guarantee you none of those glass Wanderlodges will survive unless constantly rebuilt.

Another factor that occurs to me; the Barth has already taken the depreciation that the market hands out to companies that go insolvent. How long before the next round or bankrupt companies affects their product prices?

I believe we will definitely see a sizing down on coaches, yesterday's 40'er will be tomorrow's 35'. This can be seen all over the rest of the world where fuel has gone sky high years ago.

We just made our yearly pilgrimage from Florida to NH, about 1500 miles in our 97 34' Monarch with 8.3 Cummins. We got 9 MPG pulling a car trailer and averaging 70 MPH. Now here's the interesting part, I did this trip a year ago with my Chevy Avalanche and got about 11 MPG! Sure.. gas is a bit cheaper, but no motels, no stopping a dozen times for food, potty, stretching, etc. much more safety on the road.

When in Florida we also use our coach as the third bedroom for guests that visit. They love it! Their own private cabana with AC, TVs, stereo. Again, it would have cost me close to the Barth price to add an addition with the privilege of higher taxes and insurance. No, the RV industry will live on, albiet on a tighter diet.

Corey (now in NH)

quote:

Originally posted by noble97monarch:
Sure.. gas is a bit cheaper[with a car], but no motels, no stopping a dozen times for food, potty, stretching, etc. much more safety on the road.

We took the Barth a few hunnert miles up to Stanford for a son's graduation, and another son
(and consort) drove and stayed in motels for two nights @ $125 per. We were a Franklin ahead. A longer stay would have increased our cost advantage, as would have lodgings above the bottom tier. These figures will vary with local prices and preferences, but we are ballpark.

Everybody asks us about gas expenses, and I have a little recitation on the trip expense comparison. I do point out, however, that the MH is indeed more expensive than staying home. But an RV is still a bargain vacation, or even a bargain weekend if restaurants or hotels enter into the equation.

We are near Pebble Beach in Monterey now, so a weekend golf trip from El Lay would really make a fun comparison. We will be meeting with a golf couple, and I am sure the price of our gas will come up. I can't wait.

There are way fewer RVs on the road, and many more for sale in front of houses and parked near main roads. However, the ones we see appear to be the low-end stick and staple RVs. The quality coaches seem to be holding their (imagined) value a little more, as their owners have a greater emotional investment and an ego that will not allow them to sell low. And they probably do not have the pressing financial exigencies of mere mortals.

I've been looking for a Class "B" to cure my RV ache since we sold the Barth, but there are some astronomical perceptions of value on the part of most sellers. I quoted NADA to one commercial advertiser & he hung up on me.

Today I saw one parked locally with a for sale sign. He's asking $26K. NADA says $16K. I did an eBay search & found in the past month 41 listings closed on Class "B" units from 1991 to 2002 (if you include earlier & later models there are around 200 listings).

Of the 41 listings, 11 sold, 30 didn't. Four sold for above NADA (2 Roadtreks, 1 Coachmen, 1 Leisuretravel). The overall average was pretty close to NADA retail.

For Class "B"s at least, it appears NADA is fairly accurate, though there are sure a lot of people with unrealistic aspirations. I may call my roadside seller with my research & see if he hangs up on me, too.

I kick myself today for not buying a nice well-priced Roadtrek last summer, 'cuz I didn't want to be a 2 RV owner. Oh well.

I'm not too surprized to hear Class B's have a high asking price. When you pay over 75G for a glorified conversion van you figure you should get at least half that in a year or two. I had a Ford B that was pretty cool, but I'd have a hard time going back to that after having a real coach.

quote:

Originally posted by olroy:
I've been looking for a Class "B" to cure my RV ache since we sold the Barth, but there are some astronomical perceptions of value on the part of most sellers...

...I kick myself today for not buying a nice well-priced Roadtrek last summer, 'cuz I didn't want to be a 2 RV owner. Oh well.

Based on what you sold your Barth for, and what you see for sale today. I am compelled to ask a question.

Knowing what you now know, would you still have sold your Barth?

Please don't take this the wrong way. What I am trying to determine is the value for the buck of a newer Class B compared to an older Class A Barth. Are people more apt to trade in or sell a Class A coach and downsize or, are they more willing to keep the larger coach? What is the RV industry in for as a whole? I know you started selling your coach when fuel was 2 something a gallon so the cost of fuel wasn't a factor then.

I know what my gut is telling me... I just want to hear what your thoughts are on this. When you sold your coach, I really thought you were done RV'ing.