It has become apparent the recovering from a hip replacement leaves one lots of time to surf and raise questions. As I read about the Barth I see the wide use of the 454 in the Chevy P-30 and 32 chassis. I wondered about the diesel pushers as I have one with the Cat 3208T and there are references to Cummins in Breakaways. Not knowing anything about the difference I did some digging to compare the two and it appears the Cat must be the 900 lb gorilla with 10.4 liters of power while the 230 Cummins is barely half that displacement. Were larger Cummins diesel engines installed that were comparable to the big Cat's? Were the Cat's distinct to Regencies after a certain year? What happened in the 1996-98 years when the Monarch was built. Mine has loads of power and acceleration with modest economy but how did the similar pushers get by with 5.9 liter engines? Any thoughts are welcome.
Tom

my 5.9 required a banks stinger kit to make it respectable. I can travel at 65 pulling a trailer and 70 downhill, but the allison 4 speed runs out of gear. You can get 300hp from the 5.9s with mods, but the tranny and rear aren't rated for that much torque.

I guess that would be the difference between Gillig and other chassis? These buses seem to have no limits on torque or HP. Obviously the model of Allison must also make a big difference. Mine is MT 643, I think.

The 5.9L Cummins (in 160, 190, and 230HP versions the most frequent) populated most Breakaways.

The Cummins 8.3L (230, 240, 250,&300 HP) powered many of the Spartan-chassis Regencies and some of the Monarchs. I know of one Cummins L10, and a Cat 3126, the latter in a Breakaway. The Cat 3208T (250 HP) and 3208 TA (300 HP) appeared in Regencies with Gillig chasses.

The Oddballs of all would be the 4 '94 28' Breakaways, of which mine is the prototype. Mine had the POS original ('91) GM 6.5L TD (190 HP, 360 lb.-ft. torque) and the 4L80E transmission. Now it has the AMG 6.5L TD (230 HP, 430 lb.ft. torque), and a custom-built torque converter and transmission. Initially, I wished for the Cummins/Allison for my coach, but now wouldn't trade for that combo.

I've been contemplating a "re-power" of my rig. I want to climb any hill at 70mph fully loaded with 1/2 pedal. I don't like feeling like i'm running her hard because my foot is on the floor.

quote:

What happened in the 1996-98 years when the Monarch was built.

My 97 Monarch 34' (built on a 95 Spartan chassis) has the 8.3 Cummins turbo/aftercooled at 350HP. Don't know the torque, but it pulls well up all but the worst hills towing a 16' car trailer. Fuel mileage at 10MPG. Allison electronic 6 speed with electronic efficiency mode.

Was a bit of a dog out of the hole until MWrench did some fine tuning. Now it's a little sports RV. I often surprise people at lights that go into a merge as they are not ready for the quick acceleration of such a big rig. Not all that surprising when you consider this combo is used in 40'ers and larger.

Of course, you can always use more power, but at what cost? To push any powerplant beyond its intended range is to invite disaster. As Tony Schumacher (Top Fuel Drag Racer) once told me when asked how they can rebuild their Nitro burning motors right out in the open air "You build your motor to go 200,000 miles very slowly, I build mine to go 1/4 mile as fast as humanly possible. A bird could fly through my motor at wide open throttle and not touch anything!"

quote:

I've been contemplating a "re-power" of my rig. I want to climb any hill at 70mph fully loaded with 1/2 pedal. I don't like feeling like i'm running her hard because my foot is on the floor.

When I charter buses to Daytona we sit up front so I can talk to Adam, our regular driver, and I watch how the big MCI works. When he takes off it's foot to the floor, and the 10 speed cuts the throttle and shifts by magic. The speed is set on all their buses to 73, so his foot just lays on the floor all the time except when in traffic.
I've always been told that a properly set up diesel is not being worked too hard at full throttle, unlike a gasser. I realize that the bus isn't running at true full throttle all the time, but getting up to speed isn't pushing it like full throttle to a gasser. Maybe you diesel boys can make sense of what I'm trying to say.

Barth hot rodders, Gary in AZ has an M11 with 400 Hp and allison 4060 transmission. Also what Barth is the heaviest? Probably the one with the big front diesel. Ray (sky)

Gary's Barth

I know of 2 Monarchs with the M11 in there. I think Rusty made a mistake when he said 3126 - I believe he meant a 3176 Cat.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
...and a Cat 3126, the latter in a Breakaway

Here is link for CAT 3208 engine operation.
http://www.wanderlodgeownersgr...%20and%20Answers.pdf

I like where it says "if you want more horsepower you need to buy a new motorhome" ha ha.

Antonio

Rusty was right about the size 3126 cat

3 = Highway
12 = liter size per cylinder (1.2L)
6 = number of cylinders

1.2x6=7.2Liters

If anything were to happen to necessitate a rebuild, I would put in a 8.3L Cummins in my Breakaway. The 8.3L engine is 4 inches longer so that would require some thought about radiator clearance and possibly shorter driveshaft. I run all day long at 70-75 (~2200 RPM)with the 5.9L and it is on cruise control, going up hills takes a bit of energy management. Where I would like more power is at altitudes above 4000' here I spend a great deal of time running!

3116 I think their last year was about 1998 or 1999 and then the 3126 came out to replace it. The 3126 and 3116 are the same block - just a different head. The 3126 was electronic - 3116 was mechanical. Seeing that the last model year was 1998 I just couldn't see how a 3126 could be found in a Barth.

But, I could be wrong.

Maybe he meant 3116? I don't know... But so far I have only seen the inline 6 - 3176 cat, and the V-8 3208 Cat in a Barth.

Gary, what coach are you talking about that has a 3126 Cat in it?

It was one listed on Barthmobile, as a 3126. The owner could have made a typo. It was in a Breakaway. It very well could have been repowered Barth owners have been known to do that... ).