As a result of Dick and Bevs' misfortune, one of the other things I thought of is insurance. My insurance would only pay what NADA is. In the case of my 85 Regal, that's about $6000. Even at todays' depressed prices, I couldn't replace what I have for much less than $20000. Thorley headers, Peninsular double pane tinted windows, Gear Vendors over/under drive, 6 brand new Goodyears, Nology hot wires, all new brakes and master brake cylinder, and a pristine all original interior, don't come cheap. So the question is, 'Is there insurance out there that's affordable that will pay replacement value, and what's the name of the company that offers it?'

Jim, I have a policy with progressive with a stated value for $40,000.00 for the first five years with a $100 deductible. sky

quote:

Originally posted by sky:
Jim, I have a policy with progressive with a stated value for $40,000.00 for the first five years with a $100 deductible. sky

Ditto on me and Progressive. My policy offered me book value OR replacement value in the case of a total loss. I chose stated value and filled in my own number, and pay the premium accordingly (probably only a few dollars more every 6 months). I'm sure if you can justify upgrades and value, they (or any other company with this type of policy) will cover up to any reasonable amount.

I have good news and bad news. Having owned a general lines insurance agency for 25 years, I have knowledge of some things.

The good news is that if one has proof of upgrades, etc., that will generally be considered. There are possibly two individuals involved on claims settlement. The adjuster (may be independent or a company-owned one) has both appraisal and settlement (the checkbook) authority. The appraiser can only determine the value of the loss; for a total loss, this is "fair market value", the amount paid in a sale between a willing seller and a willing buyer, neither bing under any duress or constraints to complete the transaction. For rare vehicles (Barths would qualify), it's appropriate for the insured to request (or demand) that appraiser to come up with a list of "comparables", as NADA is but a guide. In Dick and Bev's case, they should eceive the full price paid, as a fair market value for their Barth was recently established.

Now the bad news. Losses paid are on one of four bases (there are others, used for specific types of insurance, but these are the prevalent ones):

1. Actual Cash Value (Fair market value): The most common, and outlined above.

2. Replacement Cost: The cost to replace the destroyed item with a new one of "like kind and quality". For RVs, this is available only in the first five model years or first five chronological years.

3. Agreed Amount: The insurer and insured agree on a value, usually determined by one or more objective appraisals. This is common for items scheduled under a homeowners policy, such as jewelry, musical instruments, etc. It is also fairly common for antique and classic cars not used for daily transportation.

4. Stated Amount: This basis is a classic case of "weasel words"; if one reads the actual settlement basis, one will likely find that the wording is to the effect that settlement "...will be based on the Actual Cash Value or Stated Amount, whichever is LOWER."

It is worthwhile to have your agent check with the company about other than Stated Amount, or check the actual terms of settlement, as a company may have an hybrid "Stated Amount/Agreed Amount" terminology.

Also check on availability of an Agreed Amount contract for Barth 20 model years old or older - it may be eligible for Agreed Amount coverage as a "Classic". One 25 model years old is an "Antique". A 1989 Barth is 20 model years old.

Having been an Auto-Owners agent for all those years, that's where my Barth is insured. Its RV coverage doesn't have all the bells and whistles of other carriers, but only once did a customer have a dispute (offered $500 for theft of an older, high mileage Ford Crown Vic; she had all the maintenance records - the car was in primo shape except for the faded paint - and after I had a frank and open discussion with the claims manager, she received $2,100).

Among the companies I represented that had above average settlement fairness were Auto-Owners and Progressive, followed by GMAC and AIG. My customers' experience with captive-agent companies (and discussions with their agents) was that the top was Farm Bureau, followed closely by Nationwide and Cotton States. At the bottom were State Farm and Allstate.

Rusty, I did make a mistake on that was "stated amount", I looked at the policy and it does say "agreed value $40,000.00." Anne is my agent and we had to send a bill of sale to Progressive to recieve the "agreed amount" for comprehensive and collision. Take care sky

I figured Anne would get the best coverage available.

I've been thinking about a switch to Progressive, as Auto-Owners non-renewed my homeowners last year ("reducing hurricane exposure"), which kind of violated the trust of having been an A-O agent for all those years, and the fact that I'm in the least hurricane susceptible part of FL, and updated my house for 150mph winds.

I am very happy we have knowledgeable people in the insurance game. We recently made a trip to Florida and while returning had the fan belt that powers the hydraulic pump (Cat 3208T Diesel Pusher) fail. The first thing that happens is steering goes, followed by a fast rise in the engine temp, as the colling fan is hydraulically powered. I had USAA RV insurance (retired Navy reserve) that has what appeared to be comparable features to the Good Sam polices. We stopped by the side of IH-10 and called for road service, knowing we had a spare belt but not the large tools needed to change it (another story as they were "needed" in Florida for our plant moving to Texas). USAA said we could be towed to the nearest service center, unlimited miles etc. but not serviced on the road. We want to see if someone offers road service insurance rather than having to be towed 50 miles for a simple thing like a fan belt. In our case we spent $600 on road service for two young kids to come and follow directions on changing a belt, and the insurance paid us one hour of time $85.50. We knew Texas plates in Louisiana would be a problem but that is also another story. It seems reasonable that insurance would rather pay a road trip than the cost of towing a 34,000 RV and its TOAD, but so far we can't find any such policy coverage. Any ideas would be helpful.

Tom K,
We had a very similar experience on our trip to Florida. We blew an outside rear tire. My wife worked for AAA so we have their RV road service added to our regular AAA road service agreement.

They would send someone out to put on our spare but not to bring us a tire. They would tow us up to 100 miles to a tire repair center. We tried to explain the logic of this for two hours, all the way up the chain of command. BUT that's what the policy allows was their only comment. They did finally agree to pay for the service call of the tire repair road side service and we paid for the tire and mounting. That's what we expected but again two hours on a cell phone and dropped calls and moving up the chain to get a logical answer. And they pay these people good money to set there and read what the policy says. Wonder what it would have cost them to tow us 100 miles.
Nick

The other two ones slanted towards RVs are the Good Sam and FMCA clubs. I only used Good Sam once, and had an onsite tire replacement (after blowing out one tire, then blowing out the spare). Service was excellent, after they called and checked, and the one supposed to do it was clueless, they sent one who wasn't. I don't know if either sends out the pros, but I suspect they would.

There are plenty of good on-the-road mobile repair guys (like Bill N Y) who specialize in onsite repair. Their rates may seem high, but I insured two very good ones, and their equipment - truck, tools, and parts inventory - can easily top $150,000. Considering they know what they're doing, service calls are quite reasonable, IMHO.

I contacted Progressive Insurance today and basically struck out. Their representative said that they would only insure my 1985 Barth for NADA, or an "appraised value". When I asked how to get an appraised value, they said they would only accept a bill of sale not older than 24 months, or an appraisal done by a motor home dealer. I bought my Barth 3 years ago so the bill of sale is out. As far as getting one of the local dealers to appraise it, I can think of no other group that is less qualified to appraise a 1985 Barth. They all think that it's a piece of junk. So, I'm back to square one. If I had a fire today, I'd get about $6000. That's about $14000 less than it would cost to replace it, and I would effectively be out of the motor home business. I'm willing to pay more for good insurance, but all Progressive did was refer me to USAA, my current carrier. All they do is KBB or NADA. Catch 22!!

quote:

Originally posted by Jim and Tere:
All they do is KBB or NADA. Catch 22!!

I totalled a car with Hartford. They wouldn't even pay NADA or KBB. They did a search and found the cheapest comps they could, all in throw-away papers out in meth territory, and said that was "market".

They might have saved a little on me, but they lost an awful lot of profit on the business I took to another company.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim and Tere:
I contacted Progressive Insurance today and basically struck out.

That's too bad, sorry to hear about that outcome. I basically did all of my insurance quoting & signing through the website, and I'm not even sure if I ever talked to an actual person. When I was adding & deleting coverage "options" the market value vs. stated value was one of them and I chose the latter. Could be the age of my SOB (1994), but it's not as if it's THAT much newer.

You might want to try the website, and just see what you find. This could be like any manner of customer service departments, where you'll get a different (and often better) response if you hang up and call back to talk to someone else.

I've talked to an agent for ANPAC and they will accept stated value backed up by an appraiser who does not necessarily have to be a motor home dealer.So now I'm wondering if there are some people on this web site who would be willing to do appraisals on the older Barths? I can think of a half a dozen very qualified people if they would be willing. Wonder what the liability would be, if any? I've had a couple of older Volvos appraised by people who are members of VCOA (Volvo Club of America} and the appraisals were accepted by insurance companies. If a couple of you experts would be willing, it could really help those of us who own older Barths at least get something other than NADA or KBB in the event of a catastrophe like Dick and Bev went through. ANPAC do a lot of insuring of classic automobiles so they know what we're talking about

How could one do an appraisal without seeing it?

It's like a house assesment for an equity line of credit. You want the house to be worth more then market value.

The same house, this time for the tax man. You would want a lower value for the tax man.

Same house, time to sell it. Now you want top dollar, or more.

The problem in this case, you want a higher appraisal and when you go to sell, it's worth alot less. If we used values for what they sold for, then you would be striking out...

My opinion. A barth is worth more than the average motorhome. That's a given and should be listed as the understatement of the day. But, because of the orphan status, our coaches are undervalued. That being said, how many of us could afford what the value is that we place on our coach? We know we couldn't get that kind of qaulity for what we paid for it.

Now you're in the same range, quality wise, as what these Wonderlodges or Prevosts are going for. Here is the way I would look at it... If the Barth sold for 200k new - and the same year Prevost or Newell sold for 200k then I want to know what the selling price is of the other coach today. Same quality, only the other coach doesn't have the stigma of the orphan shingle hanging on it's name.

The Barth bargain, it's what has brought the vast majority of the members to our site. Quality and affordability at the same time. We can see it for ourselves, even if an appraisal wouldn't.

Hi, I talked to my insurance adjuster today. He kept talking KBB value which was around 14 G. I told him it was like collecting old cars to restore, KBB would price them about 1/4 of what they were actually worth. Fortunately for me, he collects and restores old cars. After the third phone call, he said he would try to get me what I paid for it. He said that a jury would ask what a fair market price was. Since it was auctioned on E-bay, someone other than I thought it was worth a lot more than KBB. I sent him the bid history, pictures,etc. He lives in Tenn and told us yesterday that he was going to NC to appraise the coach. After getting pictures of it this morning, he canceled his trip. Will keep you up to date.