I saw a huge red flag as soon as I read the data tag had been removed, I suspect one of the POs may have been up to something. Sounds like Matthew is stuck in the middle, I hope he doesn't get burned. Why would anyone remove that tag anyway?

Looks like a dandy coach, hope they get it cleared up.

Talked to Mathew last night - he can read the first grouping of number, he just can't read the sequential grouping because it's behind a bolted on suspension part.

46GED1517P105????

He also took out several draws but could not find anything with a Barth sequential build number written on it.

Apparently he has sold it to someone from Florida who is planning on attending the Milford GTG.

Oh well...

I'd hate to be in Matthew's shoes....it's a bad situation...

My first question is:

1. How did it EVER get a title with a vin from
another coach? For it to be such a similiar coach, it sounds like it could be purposeful. This smells like a theft or something...do we have record of the coach being stolen?

2. Worse, he is fully aware of the situation,
has sold the coach, and there is a TON of conversation on this website about it....the only safe thing he can do is cancel this pending sale...and correct the vin problem...and hope the buyer still wants it....

In our state, he could do a title search to verify it is not stolen, post public notice and within a 90 days get a legal title for it...

I hope the next owner is fully aware of the situation....

I just got off the phone with Mathew a little while ago. This was bothering him too so he drove back out to the airport again this morning @ 6am and removed the suspension parts that was in the way.

His heart sank when it was revealed that 4 of the digits did not match his title.

I am holding off on listing what the correct number is so he can try to line up his ducks and locate the correct title. It's a shame really, Mathew seems like a really decent guy. He seems to be a victim and is very concerned himself.

I contacted Gillig and gave them the correct vin# that Mathew located on the frame. It was initially supposed to have the 3116 Cat in it but was changed, at the factory, to have the 8.3L 6CT 250HP Engine installed. The notes say nothing as to why the #15 is on the frame instead of the #18 for the 8.3L.

It's possible, but no one knows for sure, that they had a production line stoppage waiting on the 3116 and to keep the line moving, they installed the 8.3L instead. That is pure conjecture on my end but is supported by the engine serial number of that 8.3L being stamped into the frame directly below the correct vin#.

BTW: He went into the bathroom and removed a couple of more drawers - it does say 3888 as I suspected it would. The correct Barth Tag# for this Breakaway XL is 9310 3888 33XG 7C

He could apply for a lost title and see where that takes him.

quote:

Originally posted by Shadow man:
He could apply for a lost title and see where that takes him.

I dunno......I didn't like where that took me.


I bought a racing motorcycle that had a certificate of lost title. I didn't stress too much, as it was for desert racing.

Later, I decided to register it and get plates so I could ride legally on roads in Nat Forests, etc, which some enduros included.

That's when things went downhill fast. There was sloppy record-keeping on the part of several gov agencies and incompetent investigation by the police I consulted before the purchase. Things really went downhill fast, with the Highway Patrol confiscating the bike. Once things got a little clearer, with the help of the NCIC and the NATB, I ended up buying it back from the insurance company that paid off on the fraudulent theft claim. I ended up OK financially on it, but it was a tremendous amount of aggravation.

Since then, I have strenuously avoided anything even slightly doubtful. Last week I turned down a nice tractor when I found the data tag missing. I didn't even bother to look for numbers anywhere else on the frame, engine, etc.

Several years ago, one of my clients brought in a newly purchased vehicle to insure. It was 5 years old and only had 10,000 miles on it. Vehicle looked nice and I commented on how fortunate he was to find such a nice vehicle. I went out and copied the vin from the top of the dash. For some reason (I don't normally verify the vin in the 2 locations), I opened the drivers door and looked at the vin tag on the door post. THE VINS WERE DIFFERENT

Insured and I did some investigation. The vehicle was indeed stolen. A salvage yard had bought the stolen car, put a vin tag from an identical totaled vehicle they had in their salvage yard and sold it to my client.

The salvage yard owner ended up going to jail.

All is well now - there is a positive energy flow coming out of this. Everybody is happy that it was brought up and the cards are on the table for all to see.

Mathew is a decent guy who is doing the right thing, he has gone above and beyond to be 100% forthcoming with me. I feel 100% confident that it was just a mixup with paperwork from several years ago and Mathew is now caught in the middle of it. The potential purchaser is well aware of what's going on and they are both working towards a resolution that will allow this coach to "Get Legal" and be 100% legit.

That's all I got for now - more to report after I hear from all of the parties involved.

BTW: Both of my Barths were purchased without me crawling around the frame rail to verify that the chassis vin# matches the data-tag or title. I would bet that an overwhelming number of our members here never verified the frame vin#. So, this just might play out again in the future.

My bus doesn't have a frame vin.......because it doesn't have a frame! It is supposed to have two vin plates, one in the motor compartment, (which it does ), and one just above the driver's head on the luggage rack which is no longer there. When i titled it in Az. i was able to show them a picture in my maintenance manual of the corner of the luggage rack with a vin plate visible. I had no idea what had happened to the plate when the bus was converted and they took the racks out. They accepted that and i got my title. 5 years later i had an air leak on my door lock cylinder and when i removed the carpeting on the side of the stairwell to get to the access panel,....there was my other vin plate! The other thing is that my vin is only 4 numbers long.

OK folks, I am now going to add the last installment to this on line mystery of the 94 Sovereign with BOB'S VIN#. BOB, I sold your coach and no you are not getting any of the money. The coach with the same VIN# as yours is now progressing its way toward Florida. All kidding aside. I have straightened out the VIN# so BOB you can relax, you will be the only coach with that number ending in 1995. How the data tag got removed from my coach is, and will remain a mystery. The new owner is one of the good guys and knows the story on this rig. He got a real nice coach at a good price, and he and his wife will enjoy it for may years to come. He will register the coach in Florida with the correct number ending in 2001. His last message to me from the road was that the Cummings Engine was running like a Swiss Watch. I want to thank all of you for your attention to the mistake on the vin so I could get it made right. Now back to restoring my little 1983 BARTH 22 footer. Happy Barthing everyone. Matthew "mateo37"

quote:

Originally posted by mateo:
His last message to me from the road was that the Cummings Engine was running like a Swiss Watch.

I talked to him yesterday - 2 hickups from the road.

One was a PACbrake transmission lockup issue that mysteriously straightened itself out - he thinks it might be related to the updated programming of the transmission as the transmission display went out at the same time.

The other was the loss of the 120v power to the a/c unit when he had the heat strips on. I told him to look under the bed at the circuit panel box. He was able to reset the breaker to get it to work again.

quote:

Originally posted by mateo:
How the data tag got removed from my coach is, and will remain a mystery.

The new owners did a CARFAX report on it - this vin# mistake is at least 9+ years old. Seeing that John Jacobson told me he saw that tag and read the number off to me, that tag was removed somewhere between him in 2008 and now. I suspect, but have no proof, that John registered it with an incorrect vin# too and might have realized the mistake. After verbally telling me the data tag number from that tag, he was going to send me a photo of it but never did.

quote:

Originally posted by mateo:
I want to thank all of you for your attention to the mistake on the vin so I could get it made right. Now back to restoring my little 1983 BARTH 22 footer.

I'm really glad it worked out for all the parties involved.

I'm glad things are straightened out. I remember that coach from several years ago, both when JJ was selling it and when the PO, a guy (with a French name) was selling it. I was going to look at it, and was a mile away several times, but just got a bad feeling about it. I think I remember a bunch of deleted posts.