I previously posted a couple of months ago about an intermittent starting problem. After much discussion and diagnostics, I replaced the solenoid located under the drivers compartment which is wired to the starter (NAPA Part). This seemed to have solved the "intermittent" problem as I had no problems starting the Barth many, many times over the past few months as we have moved from one project to another. After stopping for the night on my way to the Florida Keys two weeks ago, the Barth would not restart the next morning. The exact same symptoms occurred : Turn key to on and audible buzz appears, turn to key to start position and nothing happens. Inside engine compartment, when key is on position, I hear noise which I suspect may be the fuel pump spinning up(?) and can start the Barth by using wires to jump the terminal posts from small to large on the starter. This is fairly simple (THANKS FOR LESSON NY BILL!) but nearly as romantic as one might think every time you have to start the motor! Any one else have a similar experience and can make my diagnosis and expenditures more efficient? I am very far removed from being a mechanic and will likely pay someone but I want to make sure I am going in the right direction. Thanks!

I'd first suspect a defective part.

Clean and tighten all of your cable ends and the battery posts.

Jumper the two large terminals on the relay that you replaced under the engine cover, if it cranks, that is not your problem either. Beware of an open commutator bar in the starter, I diagnosed my first one in 1974 and have only seen it a couple of times since. If the starter motor armature stops where one of the brushes is on the commutator bar with the high resistance, it will not crank however if you rapidly cycle the key from on to start several times the energy pulse will eventually move the armature enough to get to a good bar and the starter will activate. Before you go through all of that, if you can catch it where it will not start and jumper the relay or the solenoid first and it does start then i would look further up the circuit, perhaps the neutral safety switch or ignition switch, but those fail even fewer times. Good Luck!

You have a bad ground and/or selanoid. Both in the same package somewhere under the rig or in the engine compartment. I fix mine by accident. But I still can't get the power transfer to occur between engine and house batteries.

Sorry for the slow follow up on this but typing on my Iphone doesn't lend itself for long postings.

Here's the story: Went to leave the camp ground one day last year and ..turn the key, the consant power selanoid works, go too engage the starter and NOTHING! Accompaning mechanic throws open the bed, jumps starter relay and off we go home. Once home disconect the batteries cables and starter clean everything up and no more problems last year. ****Meanwhile; the enigne has stoped charging the house battries**** First two trips this year no problems (except for the charging issue)Trip #3 the staring problem is back...put in emergecy bypass start switch in engine compartment and no starting problems what-so-ever (rule out bad starter).

In an effort to resolve the charging problem I replace the selanoid I beleive is the problem on the frame rail (really BAD placement for it). I cable tie it to wire bundle insted of fastening it to frame rail to move the bus from point A to B. It wont start and I have to use my bypass switch. Once I clean its spot on the frame rail and reattach it...ALL Starting problems are gone!

Still NO power transfer from engine side to house side. Grounding Gremlins are setting in.

The selnoid on the left is the problem child.

Checked all connections and no apparent problems. Solenoid located under drivers compartment is hot in and hot out. Shop tech has been tracing wires and found one white wire in bundle at starter labeled "Start Rely Wire" and this runs from starter to Fuel Shut Off Relay on curb side of engine compartment and we cannot seem to find where it goes from there . . . Where does the power for this wire come from? Tech also hooked up a remote start button - powered from battery terminal to starter and push button and engine starts right up. He is saying something is preventing power from ignition to starter but cannot locate. I REALLY need help on this as it is getting painfully expensive to track and repair. He seems convinced the problem is on the "coach" side versus the "engine side" as describes. Is there a wiring schematic out there or does anyone have experience to share with me?

Could be a bad ignition switch.

Run a jumper from a known hot lug and touch the coil hot on the relay. If it cranks, bad ignition switch. If not, the relay is suspect.

To check, jumper from hot to the small lug on the starter. (This is what you're doing when you jump the two terminals on the starter).

Rusty - where is the relay?

When you say that you checked all connections and there were no apparent problems, did you just look at them, or did you clean them too? They may look fine but still have a fine coating of tarnish that will keep currant from going thru.

quote:

Originally posted by jer711:
Rusty - where is the relay?

The first relay you replaced. I assume you weren't referring to the starter solenoid when you described it.

I had the same problem with my "93 33' Breakaway with the cummins and the 3060 allison and discovered it was the neutral start relay inside the allison black box in the electrical compartment. Spartan told me which 2 to jump across and eliminate the relay as it is not needed on this coach.
Good luck,
Darrell and Jeannie

It may very well be the neutral safety switch - can you clarify what I am looking for and where it is located at so we can try to test it and hopefully repair it. A wiring schematic or photo would be great in helping my challenged skill set get through this.

If the starter solenoid and the intermediate relay work, the next suspect is the neutral-start switch.

I'm not familiar with that transmission, but I believe the check is to ensure the shift lever on the tranny is in the neutral position.

I wish I could help you more than telling you how to jump out a starter. You really need to find someone who can figure this out without wasting your money.

Nick Cagle's problem was tarnished contacts inside of his starter.











I believe that all he did was buff out the contacts on the 2 stud sides and flipped the contact plate on the plunger side.

Can anyone advise on how to locate/test the transmission neutral safety switch? The transmission shifts through all gears fine with no issues and I can confirm the transmission is in neutral when the LED light indicates so as the coach will only slightly roll and shifting into D clearly indicates the transmission shifts to Drive as well as Reverse etc.