Mechanic says I need a new (rebuilt, reman) injection pump for my 5.9L Turbo diesel on 1992 Breakaway. Does anyone have the name of a good, reliable provider? Prices have ranged from $2,400 for reman from Cummins to $1,400 for rebuild from Jobbers Warehouse in Philly. The pump is a Robert Bosch 0402736830. Of course, I'm the typical Barth owner who wants the best at the best price. Am worried about suppliers on the internet who won't commit to price on rebuild, although I can understand their reluctance to make a commitment without inspecting the core return. Thanks.

For me, it would be a no-brainer. I will only stand behind a quality rebuilt injector pump. If what I put on fails, the customer will demand that I do it again for free. I would have to pay for the tow and if it's in another state, I would have to pay someone else to do the job again. Most likely, more then I got paid for doing it in the first place.

“The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the cheap price is forgotten.” These are words I live by. My reputation is worth more than a cheap part.

On the other hand, if the customer wants to purchase the cheaper part... It's all on them. I'll put it in, they get a labor bill and they deal with all warranty issues on their own.

I can point to many places on the internet that "Looks good" and is cheaper, but none that I would trust. What you are asking is a tough balancing act. I purchase my rebuilds from Cummins. If I installed a Cummins rebuilt injector pump and it fails, Cummins will tow it in and replace it for free.

When I was dealing with an outside source, I used Dick Laing Diesel Service. I never had a problem with them. Their phone number is 800-992-3537 and they are in Binghampton NY.

I stopped dealing with them several years ago, not because I had a problem, they were too far away to give me fast service. I had to send them my pump and it would get rebuilt and then shipped back. 4+ days from breakdown until roll was not making any of my accounts happy. With Cummins, you call and if they don't have it in stock, they'll get it to you the next day.

I'm of the school that thinks a mechanic should tell you why something needs replaced.

What symptoms were you experiencing? Did your mech run a pressure test and/or check injectors? Even if the pump developed a leak, many times that repair would run much less, involving seal replacement.

Sadly, many "technicians" these days are Parts Replacement Experts. However, if your mech is conversant with diesels, used to watch "I Love Lucy" first runs, has several recent cuts and scrapes on his arms, and has a nametag "Bud", he may be right.

That said, I'm totally with Bill N Y - a Cummins reman will be brought to factory specs, and should have the new seals so you can use ULSD fuel without additives. No telling where an aftermarket rebuild would be done, or how well.

The pump on my 5.9 Cummins is leaking around either the shut down lever shaft or the throttle shaft. Several mechanics that I talked to said leave it along until the drips get so bads that you are leaving more mess then you want! I am leaking engine oil not fuel. If I were leaking fuel, I would replace the pump. It is a royal pain to get the pump out, not so much the pump but to get at the timing button and all the other stuff that has to be removed for clearance.

I also agree with Rusty, the mechanic should disclose why the pump need to be replaced, maybe he did and you didn't include the reason in your post.

Let us know how you make out.

To explain a little more. Got up early Monday of last week to take the Barth in for emission test as it needs to pass the test before the registration can be renewed, which was due on Nov 30. Barth started up right away, idled perfectly, so I left the cab to check that everything was okay before backing out of the garage. Got about half way done with the inspection and the engine began to cough and then died, and would not start again. Called local people who service the unit and they sent out their mobile service tech to get it running. We both surmised it was starved for fuel, so he drained the fuel/water separator, got fuel into the separator again, got fuel to the fuel pump but could not get fuel past the injector pump. Primed the system but still no luck. Sprayed brake cleaner into the air intake while cranking the engine hoping it would get the engine moving enough to pull fuel through but still no luck. (The '92 has mechanical injectors; no ECM.) No fuel was getting to the injectors and hence no fuel into the cylinders. The tech has been a diesel mechanic for 9 years, went to votech diesel school after being a car mechanic for awhile. Says he has rebuilt injection pumps, knows how they work and this one is not working at all. Says a lack of lubricity, or intake of sediment or dirt could have damaged the pump. (Comment about dirt and sediment is a little puzzling as all filters were replaced in March prior to a two week trip to Death Valley.) I was impressed, however, with his use of the word "lubricity" but do wish he could have been named Bud rather than Jonathan. He is a good 'ol boy off a Missouri farm, likes to hunt and eat crawfish etouffee
chased with cold beer, rides motorcycles and will root for LSU to beat Ohio State and that counts for a lot.

Really appreciate your counsel.

I hesitate commenting on this subject due to others having way more knowledge, but I'm told that some truckers have had to change fuel filters at 300 to 500 mile intervals until this new fuel has "cleaned out" their tanks. Maybe before buying a pump, you might try changing all fuel filters and separators again? Tom

Tom, Thanks for the advice. Would like to hear what others say about this, too. I've gotten so many conflicting pieces of data about the new fuel. Some say it's no problem and others are not so sanguine. I do use Diesel Kleen as an additive, which is supposed to help. Thanks again.

I think there is a long and informative topic on the new fuel somewhere in this forum. Sorry for your frustrations. I hope you can avoid having to get a pump. Tom

Tom, I wouldn't be to concerned about the "new fuel" I have been a little over 10,000 miles with no problem. Bill N.Y. would be the expert on this. Tom

Surely Jonathan loosened a couple of the injector pipes while cranking the engine to see if fuel appeared. However, the abrupt way the engine quit does reinforce the diagnosis the IP has crapped out (broken shaft, perhaps?).

I have to agree that with the Diesel Kleen additive, lubricity shouldn't be a problem. Sulfur in the LSD (500 ppm) was in a high enough proportion to be an effective lubricant. ULSD apparently contains some higher ends of distillate, which could possibly scour the fuel tanks, but I consider this highly unlikely. In any event, the scouring of the crud in (both sludge and particulates) the tanks would plug the filters.

There have been some reports of the ULSD causing seal damage in some pumps; however, this doesn't seem to be your issue.

I have 12,000 miles on ULSD (using CRC and other additives, now going over to Stanadyne, maker of my IP), with no problems.

Thanks for all your help. Looks like I'm on the way to getting a reman or rebuild. One company on internet is Jobbers Warehouse www.jobbersinc.com/american_bosch.htm-- that gives a one year warranty and claims to have been dealing with Bosch fuel injection systems for over 30 years-- will do a rebuild for $1400 but when digging a little deeper are a little evasive about what it could cost if some of the parts are damaged, such as the shaft. Any intelligence on this company? BTW the mechanic told me that his shop foreman has the same engine in his truck and he had to replace the pump after 95,000 and, moreover, pumps usually go bad in the range of 100,000 to 130,000 miles. My Barth has 104,000. Does his info seem right?

Continuing--just for kicks go to the Jobbers Warehouse listing of all the Cummins engines they have in stock. They have a new (mfd 2003) 5.9L turbo diesel that will provide 235,250,305,325 HP with ECM etc. I'm not going this way, but it's fun to fantasize.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Johns:
Bill N.Y. would be the expert on this. Tom

Well, now that you've swollen my head , I guess I have to respond some more. See what happens when you save somebody a couple of thousand dollars.

quote:

Originally posted by Toosahn:
Got about half way done with the inspection and the engine began to cough and then died, and would not start again.

To me, this sounds like it could be sucking air or have a weak transfer pump. The Cummins 5.9L has a transfer pump and an Injector Pump.

quote:

Originally posted by Toosahn:
We both surmised it was starved for fuel, so he drained the fuel/water separator, got fuel into the separator again, got fuel to the fuel pump but could not get fuel past the injector pump.

This sounds like he did what I would have done. Keep in mind, you can't tell what kind of psi a weak transfer pump is pushing. You can see flow, but how do you know what kind of psi you really have? Did he use any psi testers? The transfer pump will suck fuel, any leaks before this pump will give you a stumble, cough and a no run complaint. More so at an idle when the volume of fuel is the lowest.

quote:

Originally posted by Toosahn:
Primed the system but still no luck.

Let's say your fuel system has been reprimed. If you were sucking in air around the primer pump, how would you know?

You know when you have a crack in a straw, you get air bubbles? A bigger crack will give you more air bubbles. A smaller crack/hole will still draw a fuel suction but it will still have air bubbles in it. Diesels hate air in the fuel system. It makes them stumble and cough.

quote:

Originally posted by Toosahn:
Sprayed brake cleaner into the air intake while cranking the engine hoping it would get the engine moving enough to pull fuel through but still no luck.

Ok, this sounds like someone who doesn't psi test a system...

quote:

Originally posted by Toosahn:
No fuel was getting to the injectors and hence no fuel into the cylinders.

The (IP) Injector Pump will compress air and not allow fuel in. Did he remove the little plug on the side of the IP and bleed out all of the air until it ran out in a steady stream?

quote:

Originally posted by Toosahn:
The tech has been a diesel mechanic for 9 years, went to votech diesel school after being a car mechanic for awhile. Says he has rebuilt injection pumps, knows how they work and this one is not working at all. Says a lack of lubricity, or intake of sediment or dirt could have damaged the pump.

It sounds like they sent you a decent guy if all of that is true. I have no reason to doubt it. But there is more that he could have done.

quote:

Originally posted by Toosahn:
(Comment about dirt and sediment is a little puzzling as all filters were replaced in March prior to a two week trip to Death Valley.)

If you have algae growing in the tanks and it's made it to the fuel filters you would need to replace the filters... If it ran good and it just died out while idling, I would think not for it being a filter issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Toosahn:
I was impressed, however, with his use of the word "lubricity" but do wish he could have been named Bud rather than Jonathan. He is a good 'ol boy off a Missouri farm, likes to hunt and eat crawfish etouffee
chased with cold beer, rides motorcycles and will root for LSU to beat Ohio State and that counts for a lot.

You didn't say what kind of beer.

Look, if I was chasing this MH I would have done most of what he did. I would have also done one more thing that has gotten many of trucks rolling after other service providers gave up. Pressurize the entire fuel system...

What shows up as little air bubbles inside of the IP will be pure fuel if you can pressurize the entire suction side of a fuel system. This includes the little plunger seal inside of the primer pump that no one can see. That transfer pump can suck air without any signs of leakage.

Think of it like this... Your soda straw doesn't dribble out pop when you're sucking in air from a crack, does it?

Find your fuel tank vent. With a rubber tipped blowgun pressurize the fuel tank vent tube with air (don't go crazy) pressure and allow your fuel tank to force the fuel from the tank to the head of the IP. Crack open the IP's bleeder and wait until fuel runs out and no air bubbles are there. You don't even need to crank it over like this.

With air PSI still in the fuel tank. Crack open number 1 injector line AT THE HEAD and turn it over for about 5 second. Do another line, and then another line and see what happens.

A fuel leak should develop if you have a suction leak once you pressurize the system like this. A little bit of air in a 5.9L Injector Pump will keep you from running. This would be considered an "Airbound Pump" Let's say you do all of this and it starts up.

Ok, now you'll need to track down a suction side leak. Anything from, and including, the transfer pump to the pickup tube inside of your fuel tank is suspect. My money would be on the transfer pump or primer pump sucking in air.

[12/7 edit to add] Air is thinner than fuel. Sometimes an air suction leak is so small you might not see an actual leak or drip. Now you are looking for somthing that is sweating fuel. These are some of the toughest types of air suction leaks you'll see. This would even try Bud's patience.[end edit]

Could it be your IP? Yep, it very well could. My issue with the mobile mechanic comes from many years chasing trucks and getting them to run by exhausting ALL OTHER AVENUES first.

Installing an IP now sounds like you might wind up with more, less expensive, repairs after they "Fix The Problem". If you had told us that he pressurized the ENTIRE fuel system or had pressure tested the lines... Then, I would be more inclinded to go with an IP. For now, the jury is still out.

I don't got no diesel, but I'm sure glad we got our two Bills from N.Y. & El Segundo.

Olroy, You are so right. Nowhere else can one get such good tech advice in clear, understandable terms. This site is the best and we are so fortunate to have it.