Question about coolants. Anyone know if the new Prestone extended life that mixs with any coolant OK to use Dodge diesels as primary coolant ? Is there a required additive needed to add ? I have read fords have a cavatation problem and destroys the engines, same for Dodge ?

No matter what, the coolant should be Cummins-approved.

If I can find the website, I'll link it, but the Prestone DexCool comes standard in GM.

Some studies have shown that in virtually every case where the Dex was suspected in system failure, it was either dirt or low coolant levels; this make sense, because cavitation (probably the choice of an incorrect term - more likely erosion-corrosion) is unlikely to occur unless the engine design is faulty.

I've used it in my 6.9L Ford NA diesel, for five years.

Anyway, the compatibility should be ignored and the system cleaned then flushed throughly several times (I backflush using filtered water, then flush the last time with distilled water). BTW, GM's procedure for cleaning badly crudded cooling systems consists of 60 (six-oh) steps.

Only distilled water should be used to mix with DexCool.

As a matter of fact, I just did this today - even though I cleaned the system 5K miles ago, I'm installing a high-capacity water pump and header, so did it again.

What I have read is fords do have cavatation around the piston sleeves and an additive something like dca should be added. The cavatation is due to poor quality metal in castings. I'm just curious what is the differences of coolants ? I looked at the prestone products and have not found any real instructions of whats what. I know about the flushing and going to do that but the products are baffleing . Prestone has a heavy duty extended but have yet to find anywhere that sells it . I guess maybe a truck shop. Excuse my spelling.

DexCool was formulated by Texaco. Prestone, Shell/Pennzoil now also make it, under that name. It's available at Advance Auto Parts and O'Reilly. Most of the issues have been due to owner neglect, and I think, to some extent, by its use in aluminum block engines, which are notorious for cooling difficulties.

Poor metallurgy won't result in cavitation; poor design will. The 6.9L and 7.3L diesels are IH designs, and they're bulletproof. I don't know about the PowerStrokes, but they're Cummins designs built by Ford.

Anyway, I've used it in my three trucks (2 RVs and the van), and never had any of the symptoms described (as I mentioned, it's been in the Ford 6.9L diesel van for 5 years, and never a problem). But then I do such techno-savvy things like check the coolant level, and I clean and flush every 3 years for DexCool (where it was 1 year for ethylene glycol). I don't but GM's claim the coolant is good for 150K miles - that's just absurd.

Now when I was a Mercedes mechanic, I got to change a few waterpumps. Many suffered erosion from crud in the coolant (one of my own had over 50% of the impeller gone from that cause). So for the last 30 years nothing but distilled water goes into any of my coolng systems.

The fact that there are lawsuits tells me nothing about DexCool, only that we've not shot enough lawyers. (When I was an expert witness on lubes, the amount of mechanical ignorance possessed by lawyers is mind-boggling - which is why in 30+ suits, the defendant for whom I tstified never lost - because there was nothing he did wrong).

Anyway, here are some links:

1.

2.

I note that many of the failures were in aluminum-block engines, and I frankly question some of the peoples' attention to maintenance.

Now Cummins may approve coolants with certain [other] additives, but I can find nothing wrong with the DexCool formulation, and it's approved for my 6.5L TD.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
... because cavitation (probably the choice of an incorrect term - more likely erosion-corrosion) is unlikely to occur unless the engine design is faulty.

Are we talking cavitation or pitting?

Not trying to split hairs here but a turning water pump will cause cavitations if the coolant is not at the proper DCA levels. These air pockets then hit the side of the liner and explode on contact with the very hot surface of the piston liner. This causes pitting in the liner wall. The DCA additives protects the liner walls from the exploding air pockets. With too low of level of DCA you lose this protection.

Eventually the pitting will be so severe that compression gasses get into the cooling system and antifreeze gets into the pistons.

Ethylene Glycol antifreeze/coolant requires a lot of testing for the proper mix with additives being added for extended life. This type of antifreeze is also more abrasive to pumps and seals.

Extended Life antifreeze/coolant come in all sorts of colors from blue, orange, pink, red. These types of antifreeze used in tractor trailer trucks can last up to 600,000 miles with an additive or recharge packet added at 300,000 miles.

The transportation industry looks for ways to get long life out of everything. Extended life antifreeze with silicone hoses and constant torque clamps are a great way to do this. Liner pitting, water pump and seal failures have gone down dramatically since the introduction of Extended Life antifreeze/coolant.

Regular antifreeze/coolant is ethylene glycol and is green in color.

I recommend the extended life antifreeze to everyone. These are great product to have in your cooling system. Just don't look at this type of product as a worry free type of thing. Consider it another layer of protection for your toy and keep checking it.

Flush and refill at 3 year intervals like Rusty said. Remember that the big numbers I gave were for trucks that can put 200,000 to 300,000 on them per year. Most of these products are pre-mixed so no additional distilled water should be added.

There are some aftermarket test equipment and strips that are sold by Napa and the like that will allow you to test your cooling system.

quote:

Originally posted by bigcat:
Excuse my spelling.

Please, don't sweat the small stuff!

The easiest way to fix or minimize spelling mistakes is to write your response in a mail program. Run the spell check or leave the spell check on all of the time. Copy and paste it back here.

The problems with that are words like...

--here, hear
--right, rite, write
--plain, plane

...will not be caught. This will help with your spelling. I recommend that you don't leave it on automatic fix so that you can see which words were not spelled properly and you will learn from it.

My problem with spelling is the use of to or too (not two) and then or than. Unless someone corrects me I assume it's correct. I'm sure some of you had a chuckle with that.

U wood not no frum mi postingz butt at 1 tym I wuz a teryble spelr

Have fun with the new trick bigcat

quote:

Now when I was a Mercedes mechanic, I got to change a few waterpumps. Many suffered erosion from crud in the coolant (one of my own had over 50% of the impeller gone from that cause). So for the last 30 years nothing but distilled water goes into any of my coolng systems.

As a point of to measure from, my daughter's boyfriend works on high end cars. Last week he got a new water pump for a Mercedes 450 with a 6.9 engine, this is a car from the 1970s, they imported about 5,000 of them. The water pump cost $1,500.00, makes the engines we work on look more rational.

Timothy

I remember the first Uber Mercedes - the 300SEL 6.3. No one wanted to work on that car - M-B had shoehorned the engine from the 600SEL limo inot the smaller sedan.

Thta was in the days when you could buy individual parts; my 250C was the one with the water pump problem, and I just bought the parts and ovehauled it - about $25 in '82.

Here's a discussion about DCA. If you want to live on the edge and not worry about antifreeze, there's this.

Question for Bill N Y - can (or should)Fleetguard DCA4 be used safely with DexCool-type AF?

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
...can (or should) Fleetguard DCA4 be used safely with DexCool-type AF?

I don't know. Why do you ask? I know something is ticking in that head of yours.

Bill N.Y.

Well, there's info around that DexCool is "fully-formulated", which is supposed to mean it's already got SCAs in it. Ford's -16 formula is only for ethylene glycol.

I can't get any reliable info on whether a DCA would be advisable for DexCool in the 6.5L TD, despite the fact GM puts it in all their engines. But there's a theory that they also add an SCA.

I'm in the process (about 50% done) of installing a high-capacity cooling kit on the Barth, and part of the kit is a new dual-thermostat manifold, said to be necessary to prevent cavitation on (IIRC) #4 cylinder. Anyway, the dual-thermostat manifold definitely allows more flow.

But then, there's "good", "better", and "best", and coolant (as is oil) is cheaper than metal...

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
But then, there's "good", "better", and "best"...

What's wrong with that EVANS NPG + coolant that you had linked? If you have the water pump off and the T-stat is out the only thing left would be to drain the heater core and ports on the block and put some low air psi down the heater core lines to blow out the rest.

I've never used the stuff but the specs on it seems almost to good to be true. Why not give it a shot. Were you thinking about it?

$32.50 a gallon wouldn't be frugal... but, for what you paid on the high volume water pump and the dual T-stat setup it may be worth it.

BTW where did you get your pump and T-stat setup? I think you told me in a PM but others may want to know. Are you going to drill a 1/8 hole in the T-stat flange or does this setup have a de-aeration (or is it de-airation) line on it?

Bill N.Y.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill N.Y.:

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
But then, there's "good", "better", and "best"...

What's wrong with that EVANS NPG + coolant that you had linked? If you have the water pump off and the T-stat is out the only thing left would be to drain the heater core and ports on the block and put some low air psi down the heater core lines to blow out the rest.

I've never used the stuff but the specs on it seems almost to good to be true. Why not give it a shot. Were you thinking about it?

$32.50 a gallon wouldn't be frugal... but, for what you paid on the high volume water pump and the dual T-stat setup it may be worth it.

BTW where did you get your pump and T-stat setup? I think you told me in a PM but others may want to know. Are you going to drill a 1/8 hole in the T-stat flange or does this setup have a de-aeration (or is it de-airation) line on it?

Bill N.Y.

Two things concern me about the NPG+:

1. They don't give specific heat, which would give some idea about the heat transfer capabilities compared to water (SH = 1.0). It's nice that it won't boil at high temps, but other parts of the engine are hotte - I wouldn't want to run my oil at 350F.

2. If you had to add makeup, or blew hose and had to replace, where are you going to find it?

The kit came from Kennedy Diesel; the only ones he carries are for the 6.5L TD, vesions for the DB-2 and DB-4 injection pumps. As it turns out, I don't need the two specialty parts from the kit (the throttle bracket and the thermostat manifold cap) as I have plenty of clearance. I'll return the bracket, and possibly swap the altered cap fr stock. The cap, as well as the old system, has a bleeder in the thermostat and an external bleeder.

1. They don't give specific heat... You could call or email them. I'm sure your curious even if your not going to buy it.

2. If you had to add makeup... That would be my biggest concern too. A leaking radiator from a kicked up rock or rubbed thru hose from a seized AC compressor belt being thrown, anything could happen.

For the price of this stuff you wouldn't want to drive around with an extra 3-5 gallons spare. You can't add water to it or you'll have to flush it all out again.

Yep, I see your point. It's just way too exotic.

Bill N.Y.

I would equate NFG+ to the description of Brazil: "The coolant of the future. And always will be...."

I called prestone and was told the new yellow extended life antifreeze is not good or recommended for diesels. He told me the heavy duty extended in black bottle is thier product to buy for diesels and has all the additives already mixed. Now is where to buy this ? have not found anyone that carries it.

The Prestone extended-life yellow antifreeze must be different from Dexcool (which is orange).

I suspect the additive to which Prestone refers is "DCA" (Diesel Coolant Additive). I've not seen the Heavy Duty Extended anywhere, although Dexcool is relatively easy to find.