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Originally posted by Rusty:
I don't know who might have suggested that to you...........

It was Thomas Edison.

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Question from Rusty:
I don't know who might have suggested that to you...........

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Answer by bill h:
It was Thomas Edison.

Time sure flies by when your having fun.........

.

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Originally posted by Bill N.Y.:
Add distilled water only. .

Golly, not even EDTA?

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Statement posted by Bill N.Y.:
Add distilled water only.

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Response posted by bill h:
Golly, not even EDTA?

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Qualifying note posted by Bill N.Y.:
Note: All info is taken from the Interstate Batteries tech sheet.

I expected that question! Noticed my BOLD "NOTE" at the bottom I'm sure they have no reason to let us in on that little secret. Anyway, here's the answer...

Battery failing is usually caused by a process which take place in each cell when a battery is discharged. A discharge condition allows both positive & negative plates to react slowly with the sulfuric acid electrolyte to form lead ions. It's these lead ions which cause problems.

lead ions mix w/ sulfate ions in sulfuric acid forms insoluble lead sulfate. When lead sulfate coats the plates of the battery it ruins them. Sulfation stops the battery from delivering enough power to be usefull.

Sulfation can be removed or prevented by adding "EDTA" to each cell. This chemical forms compounds with many metal ions, including the lead ions formed in the discharge cycle of a battery. After it breaks down any lead sulfate regenerated drops down to the bottom of each cell where it lays harmlessly since it doesn't conduct electricity.

The biggest problem with EDTA is the ability to locate and purchase. I can get it and have used it in the past with fairly good results. Todays truck drivers and company officials are more inclined to say "sell me a new battery" so I no-longer try to recover batteries.

The cost factor in labor to attempt a salvage operation with maybe a payoff just makes it not worth my while. How much longer will it last? Can you assure me I won't have another problem? Are 2 of the biggest questions I get asked. I can't give them a straight answer so I just sell new batteries and check the level only adding distilled water during a PM. Now, when they go, there yanked!

Yeah, I don't use EDTA on my starting batteries any more, either. I sort of like the comfort of new batteries. But I still use it on my deep cycle batteries and motorcycle batteries. I have a herd of bikes that do not get enough attention, so their batteries suffer greatly. It seems to be of more benefit on deep cycles, but I don't know why. At work, we experimented with it. It was dificult to control the experiments, as we were a 24/7 operation with everyone in a hurry and very little concern with long-term benefits. However, I have used it for years on my own equipment, and my present batts are in year six or seven and still test above their CCA rating with a conductance tester. My previous SOB is still limping along with EDTA treated really old batteries, but the present owner has discharged them too deeply too often for my comfort, so they may not set a record.

Home Power magazine has some interesting information on EDTA. These folks really get into it.

Info can be found on the web by googling

edta battery -chelation

It is not too hard to buy. My bottles are labelled Trailhead Supply.

Batteries can benefit from desulfating, whether electronic or chemical. EDTA is just a chemical means of desulfating. I am toying with the idea of making an electronic desulfator, but so far, EDTA seems to be working for me. Some posit that the combination of an electric desulfator and ECTA can be better. Perhaps the heat involved enhances the chemical process, too.

As a shade tree mechanic who built his first racing engine 62 years ago, I'm pragmatic, and inclined to question authority. Often burned by "expert" advice that was incorrect, I tend to respect experience more than dogma, and to look for supporting facts. I've been burned by my own stupidity often enough not to disparage other opinions until I'm sure of the facts.

The dogmatic certainty of some of the battery oil comments reminds me of an episode in the late '50s, at the dawn of the rocket age. I was Executive Officer of a reserve unit composed of Electronic Technicians, several of whom worked for the Martin Co., then developing the Titan missile.

The Martin contingent trooped in one evening wearing sad expressions. One was particularly upset, so I asked, "Why so glum, chum?"

He replied, "I told those so-and so's." (Can't quote him verbatim here.)

In the seagoing services it is impolite to swear in the presence of seniors, so I pinned him with my steeliest XO glare, and said, "You told who, what?" (XOs don't have to be grammatical while addressing subordinates.)

The details of the conversation are lost, but this man was responsible for checking the circuitry involved in the missile launch sequence. He identified the possibility of critical interference in the last moments of the cycle, but the expert engineers said it was impossible, after all, they designed the system.

On the very first Titan launch the engines started, the umbilical failed to detach, the missile rose to the extent of the umbilical, the engines shut down, and the missile fell back on the pad, destroying the launch complex and everything in range of the fireball. The interference predicted by the lowly tech. had occurred.

Edison batteries were used to energize railroad signals and switches through the 1960s. Sources aren't clear on whether the electrodes were zinc, lead, or a combination, but the electroyte was caustic soda mixed with water. A thin layer of mineral oil was floated on top to prevent evaporation and absorption of CO2 from the atmosphere.

Years ago I saw battery oils advertised for automotive batteries on the Edison principle, and there have been previous discussions on this forum. At least one member has tried it, and believes it works. I don't use it myself, but to each his own.

I'm curious about the chemical reaction, and an analysis of "crud" resulting therefrom at the interface of battery electrolyte and mineral oil.

Mineral oil has no additives, so the acid would serve to break down the oil - the sludge would be the remains of the oil; I'm also not sure it wouldn't trap the hydrogen trying to escape during charging.

The bottom line is I know of no real benefit from using oil in a battery.

BTW, the converter-charger I put in the SOB has a desulfating cycle that it runs, IIRC, every 21 days...

I used to lube motorcycle cables with the following method: Remove the upper control cable from it's mount. Use a zip lock plastic bag and cut either bottom corner of the bag off. (just enough for the cable to slip through) Put about 1/4 inch of the cable through the hole you just made.Use a couple tiewraps or rubber bands to seal the bag around the cable. I tie a rag below this seal to collect any leakage. Next take your favorite lubricant and fill the bag with enough lubricant to drown the end of the cable plus .. fasten the cable so it is in a verticle position..leave it for a night. Gravity will do the rest. I lubed my heater control cable with this method and it slides like new again.