The Snow is gone in Minnesota(For now?)So its back to work on the old Moss Back. I'm getting advice to Fish Skin the last 16' of the frame with 8" L steel. She sags about 2" on the back L corner and is separating the bottom plate of the wall from the floor. I assume from the weight of the generator. I was going to remove it but it runs and works like new I have some pretty grandiose ideas like adding a towing package and they think this is the way to go? Any ideas on shoring up a sagging frame. New AC this week End

quote:

Originally posted by Scott Stewart:
I'm getting advice to Fish Skin the last 16' of the frame with 8" L steel. She sags about 2" on the back L corner and is separating the bottom plate of the wall from the floor.

I ignored this last night because I didn't know what you were talking about, it was late and I was getting ready to go to bed... then it dawned on me, "Fish Plating" is what it's called. You want to reinforce a weaken/bent/sagging frame?

quote:

Originally posted by Scott Stewart:
I assume from the weight of the generator. I was going to remove it but it runs and works like new

I would never permanently remove a generator, unless...
~Your generator is on the passenger side and your plan is to put it on the drivers side.
~You are replacing it with another generator.
~You have 2 generators and your goal is to increase lower storage space. I plan on doing this myself because I fall into this category.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott Stewart:
I have some pretty grandiose ideas like adding a towing package and they think this is the way to go? Any ideas on shoring up a sagging frame.

Initially, when I first read this, I thought that you had changed the subject. Of course, fish platting is the way to go. Can you tell what caused this to sag? I have a hard time believing the weight of a generator did this.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott Stewart:
New AC this week End

If you have the time, take some pictures and do a write up on it Scott.

If your frame is actually bent, it's unlikely it happened from excess weight. Look for shock damage from past collisions, falling into a pothole, going into the ditch, etc.

Look for small frame cracks, deformed spring pads, shock mounts, etc. Something other than the frame might also be bent or misaligned.

Three examples from my past. - 1940 Ford - lotsa miles but pristine otherwise. Squirelly handling, a loose feeling despite suspension, alignment, steering, etc. all up to snuff. Discovered the right side frame member was nearly cracked through. Sold it to a friend who had a welder. He fish-plated the cracked frame member, & put the same size fish plate on the undamaged left side frame member on the theory that it would make the strain equal on both sides. Car went fine from then on.

'64 Plymouth took a shot on the left front wheel. Everything repaired fine, but they couldn't get the front end aligned. Measured the visibly undamaged "K member, & found it warped. Replaced it.

FWD GMC motor home. Went airborne on a deceptive hump in a cross street. Handling was squirelly thereafter. No visible damage to any suspension components, but it used every bit of tolerance to align the front end thereafter.

It is rare a manufacturer will build something that sags from its own weight. You probably have invisible damage, though fish-plating is a valid solution once you find the cause of the problem.

Olroy makes some very good points.


I would also suspect rust as a potential cause of a weakness in the structure. If you are going to fishplate a known weak area, you must first pre-stress it. In other words, you should jack the sagging part up slightly beyond where you want it to settle back to after fishplating.

I had a friend weld all the panels on a Porsche restoration while it sat on jackstands. Once on its tires the doors were stuck shut.

The most imperative part of this job is figuring out the cause of the deformation. Don't do anything until you understand this or you may make things worse!

Thanks for the advice, I will have 2 bids this week from local welders and a DOT repair Man. The AC turned out great. Found a local RV garage (Husband and Wife operation) He specializes in appliance repair. Got about $10,000.00 worth of advice from him. N/C. and a used A/C unit installed, All for $200.00

quote:

Originally posted by Scott Stewart:
Thanks for the advice, I will have 2 bids this week from local welders and a DOT repair Man. The AC turned out great. Found a local RV garage (Husband and Wife operation) He specializes in appliance repair. Got about $10,000.00 worth of advice from him. N/C. and a used A/C unit installed, All for $200.00

One bid is in and the guy wont touch it. Says the frame is good but minimum the last 2/3rds of the 2x2 floor will have to be replaced. Body off job?

Are the floor joists made of steel? Are they boxed or C configuration?

So it's not the frame that is bent/sagging? Is there a spacer between the frame and the body?

The floor joists in my Barth were aluminum. Can't remember if they were channels or boxed. The bottom of the coach was skinned with metal &, as I recall, the coach box sat directly on the steel chassis members. Almost no opportunity for the structure to sag, unless it were subject to severe damage. The only wood in my floor was the plywood sub-flooring. If that is not rotted in your coach, the problem must lie somewhere else.

I had a stick and staple travel trailer that required replacement of the rear third of the joists & sub-floor. A painful job, but didn't require frame-off. That wouldn't have worked anyway, the stick and staple box would have collapsed.

Two suggestions: 1) Crawl underneath & use your eyes to see if anything looks awry, of the items noted in my earlier post. Also, check the condition of the sub-floor under the carpet where your wall separation is occurring, & the wall paneling itself. If you don't find rot, your problem must be somewhere else.

2) Get a second opinion from someone who knows something about Barth construction. If you really have a Barth, it's unlikely the first guy knows what he's talking about.

Somewhere on this website is a photo of the Barth construction, but I couldn't find it just now. That photo will tell you how how your coach is constructed, & generate a question as to the likelihood of your needing to replace the rear 2/3 of your 2x2 floor.

One more thought - there are a lot of mechanics in this world who only tackle easy jobs that are right in front of them. If the job isn't easy & straightforward, they don't want to tackle it & say anything to put the customer off, whether they know what they're talking about or not. You may have met one of them.

quote:

Originally posted by olroy:
One more thought - there are a lot of mechanics in this world who only tackle easy jobs that are right in front of them. If the job isn't easy & straightforward, they don't want to tackle it & say anything to put the customer off, whether they know what they're talking about or not. You may have met one of them.

I buzzed 74Barth up to a local welder who is very busy with DOTing Tractor Trailers. He had done some welding for me years before, and I at the very least I wanted his advice. Not the most approachable fella in the world but I knew he would tell me where I sat with this thing. After sniffing around the inside and crawling around underneath, He thinks this is something hes going to regret, but said call him next week, and with my assistance he thinks its something that could and should be done. I don't think he wants to see this POS in the dump. We may have a new Barth Fan. This makes my day