I just saw a report on television last evening that says for about $700, you can convert any diesel engine to run on pure vegitable oil, which sells for about $2.50 a gallon. There's also biodiesel which Willie Nelson runs in his coach. Anyone have any experience with non-traditional diesel fuels? Thanks, Rick

There's also biodiesel which Willie Nelson runs in his coach...

Willie is heavily invested in a Biodiesel plant; Willie is a shrewd businessman; he publicizes the fact he uses Bio in his coach; the cynic suggests he is biased.
Here, right now, Biodiesel blends are available (because of the supposed environmental advantages) and cost MORE than "regular" diesel; where is it available for less? Where is it readily available near you?

Hey Gunner,

Thanks for the feedback. The news article I saw showed a diesel burning pure veggie oil. They had added about $700 worth of parts. There is very little biodiesel in this area. Do you know if a diesel set up for bio can still run pure diesel?

Rick

Gunner is an oil man. He's right, it does cost more to run a bio-diesel mix right now with money going back to the gov in road use taxes.

Your saying bio-diesel and veggy oil, there not the same.

Bio-Diesel is a mix of veg oil and diesel fuel

Veg oil is all organic.

The benefit to you is 1)Your saving some of the dino diesel for someone else, conservation 2)Your making your vehicle burn cleaner, air pollution (this is debated)

Don't forget your spending money to save money so the upfront cost will get you. Also in the Northeast there could be a problem in the winter.

As far as the saving money part. Veg oil is about 2.25-2.50 a gallon - the diesel up here is 3.10 so there is a savings.

The way it works is the veg oil needs to be pre heated to work properly. You can do this with electricly or with antifreeze running thru a heat exchanger.

If you can get your rig to run pure veg oil you'll save money. Bio-diesel will cost more the regular diesel in most parts of the country.

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According to acquaintances who are Biodiesel activists, the modifications for running one on pure veggie oil do not eliminate the capability to run on diesel, unless that is intentional.
they've driven all over the USA in a converted small bus doing educational puppet shows. they have a very nice filter setup with a pump and holding tanks.

much of their fuel is free from restaurants...
they get permission from the manager and then pump used oil from the waste oil dumpster, run it through their filters and into the fuel tank.

they also carry a tank for unfiltered oil so they can just fill that one up when possible, and then filter it later before using in the vehicle. Another friend traveled with them last summer and reported in detail on the experience.

Of course, 'free' used oil will only be around a few years at best before small restaurants, etc. stop giving it away and start to sell it to veggie fuel manufacturers.

The veggie oil goes into a different fuel tank than the regular diesel, and there's a switch inside to switch from one tank/fuel to another WHILE DRIVING. Biodeisel generally requires no conversion since it is a blend of diesel and vegetable oil that flows through fuel lines without being preheated. My brother runs it in his vehicle in Austin, TX. when he can get it, and uses regular diesel the rest of the time.

There are other ways to run your diesel and keep the environment cleaner. This is not recommended and could get one arrested in certain parts (California) of the country.

Waste oil from oil filter changes are another source of a fuel mix with diesel. You would want to make sure the motor oil is clean and you would want to add it to your fuel tank ONLY AFTER it has been mixed with diesel.

Roadway Express has a dripper device that drips motor oil into the fuel return line. This setup allowed them "change their oil" every 50,000 miles by only adding back into the pan on a regular basis. This eliminated a mechanic from doing oil changes and allowed them to extend their oil filter change intervals.

Yellow freight has a machine that attaches to the oil pan and pumps out the oil at every service. The oil plug is replaced with a spring loaded ball (like on the end of a pen) and when it gets depressed during hookup allows for one to pump the oil out.

The used oil goes into a high speed centrifuge (think Iran) and it spins out the oil while mixing it with diesel from the truck and then it pumps it all back into the fuel tank.

It's a win, win for the companies in more miles for free without paying for disposal of used oil with extended change intervals.

Biodiesel and regular diesel can be run without engine modifications. Yes, it is cleaner to run (less sulfur and smells like french fries). It also has a higher cetane rating. It takes more than just filtering veggie oil to make biodiesel. You can check out fuel miester web page. You need to separate out the glycerin from the oil with lye. This requires a pH test before adding the lye. After the glycerin and lye settle out, drain off this goop and you have homemade soap. Then, you must add 10% methanol or ethanol to the clarified oil and voila, biodiesel. It cost around $.70-.80/gallon to make if you get the oil for free. The Church's chicken joints around here keep their oil tanks locked up. Here's a good website to better explain the process http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Chevalier:
It takes more than just filtering veggie oil to make biodiesel. You can check out fuel miester web page...

www.BioDieselNow.com

What are we seeing on Tv with these people who are pouring straight veg oil into there tanks from a bottle?

(Edit: just found on net)
I found this at Wikipedia and thought I would just copy and paste it below.

Fuel
Straight Vegetable Oil (SVO) is a fuel for diesel engines that can be either pure new vegetable oil or Waste vegetable oil (WVO)that has been cleaned, although this is normally referred to as WVO. Vegetable oil used as fuel in a compression ignition or diesel engine is also referred to as vegidiesel or vegifuel. The most noticeable difference between an engine running on diesel and SVO is that the latter is quieter, but (with rapeseed based SVO) only produces 96% of the equivalent power of diesel.

The original diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil, so SVO burns well in some diesel engines. However, due to its relatively high viscosity, using SVO with unmodified engines can lead to poor atomisation of the fuel, incomplete combustion, coking in the injectors, ring carbonisation, and accumulation of fuel in the lubricating oil.

Application and usability
Most diesel car engines are suitable for the use of SVO with modifications. One common solution is to add an additional fuel tank, one for SVO and a separate tank of diesel (petrodiesel or biodiesel) and an electric valve to switch between them. The viscosity of the SVO is reduced by preheating it using heat from the engine; the engine is started on diesel, switched over to SVO as soon as it is warmed up and switched back to diesel shortly before being switched off to ensure it has no SVO in it when it is started from cold again. In colder climates it is often necessary to heat the SVO’s fuel lines and tank as it can become very viscous. Another common solution (the one-tank system) is to add electric pre-heating of the fuel and if necessary upgrade the injection pumps and glow-plugs to allow SVO fuel use with one tank.

With unmodified engines the unfavourable effects can be reduced by blending, or “cutting”, the SVO with diesel fuel. For normal use, without either blending or a second tank and associated modifications in a petrodiesel engine, vegetable oil has to be transesterified to biodiesel.

Many cars powered by indirect injection engines supplied by inline injection pumps, or mechanical Bosch injection pumps are capable to run on pure SVO in all but winter temperatures. Turbo diesels tend to run better due to the increased pressure in the injectors. Pre-CDI Mercedes and cars featuring the PSA XUD engine tend to perform well too, especially as the latter is normally equipped with a coolant heated fuel filter.

Properties
The main form of SVO used in the UK is rapeseed oil which has a freezing point of -10°C, however the use of sunflower oil which freezes at -17°C is currently being investigated as a means of improving cold weather starting. Unfortunately oils with lower gelling points tend to be less saturated (leading to a higher iodine number) and polymerize more easily in the presence of atmospheric oxygen.

Cetane number is highest with coconut oil, palm stearine, palm kernel, palm oil, palm oleine, lard and tallow. Coconut oil, palm oil, palm stearine, tallow and lard have the lowest iodine numbers.

Examples
Some Pacific island nations are using coconut oil as fuel to reduce their expenses and their dependence on imported fuels while helping stabilize the coconut oil market. Coconut oil is only usable where temperatures do not drop below 17 degrees Celsius (62 degrees Fahrenheit), unless two-tank SVO kits or other tank-heating accessories, etc. are used. Fortunately, the same techniques developed to use, for example, Canola and other oils in cold climates can be implemented to make coconut oil useable in temperatures lower than 17 degrees Celsius.

Taxation of fuel
Taxation on SVO as a road fuel varies from country to country, and it is possible the revenue departments in many countries are even unaware of its use, or feel it sufficiently insignificant to legislate. Germany offers 0% taxation, resulting in their leading on most developments of the fuel use. There seems to be no clear taxation system in the USA, however given the low rate of fuel taxation, it is unlikely to face anything unfavourable, although charges could vary from state to state. In Ireland a pilot scheme is currently running (as of April 2006) whereby eight suppliers have been approved to sell SVO for use as a fuel without the payment of excise duty (VAT at 21% still applies, SVO from any other source still attracts exise duty at 36.8058 cents per litre plus 21% VAT). Despite its use being common in France, it would appear there has been no legislation to cover this.

Bill N.Y.

Sooner or later, the EPA will get wise to the fact that burning waste motor oil in engines puts contaminants (barium, calcium, beryllium, lead and others) into the air...

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Sooner or later, the EPA will get wise to the fact that burning waste motor oil in engines puts contaminants (barium, calcium, beryllium, lead and others) into the air...

I believe the issue has already been raised in at least one of the northeastern states. It dealt in particular with home mechanics and shady gas stations disposing of waste motor oil by pouring it into their heating oil tanks.

quote:

Originally posted by bill h:
I believe the issue has already been raised in at least one of the northeastern states. It dealt in particular with home mechanics and shady gas stations disposing of waste motor oil by pouring it into their heating oil tanks.

There are units that are made to burn waste oil. For a more informed look at what legit shops are using try this site.

Most garages in this state use these with no EPA or other regulatory problems. If you fill one of these with home heating oil it burns more fuel but still works the same.

Where do the heavy metals in waste oil go then?

Probably enter the atmosphere as oxides.

Ed Chevalier Posted 05 May 2006 10:29 AM
Biodiesel and regular diesel can be run without engine modifications. Yes, it is cleaner to run (less sulfur and smells like french fries). It also has a higher cetane rating. It takes more than just filtering veggie oil to make biodiesel. You can check out fuel miester web page. You need to separate out the glycerin from the oil with lye. This requires a pH test before adding the lye. After the glycerin and lye settle out, drain off this goop and you have homemade soap.

Just had to jump in here and clarify something: technically what you get from making biodiesel IS soap, but please don't use it on your skin :-)it's NOT skin safe. And the glycerin from biodiesel production is not skin safe either :-). I am a soapmaker and just got done looking into the home distillers for biodiesel as hubby is a truck driver. I thought it would be a wonderful byproduct, the glycerin that is. Nope. So I go back to buying it from companies.

And thank you for a wonderful forum! I'm getting into my first Barth and have learned so much from you all!

Blessings
Sarah-Ann

I have been playing with (making) Bio-Diesel and WVO for about 6 years. I have/had 5 VW diesels all over 300,000k and my Breakaway. Also I burn a mix of WVO and K1 in my furnace. The end result of all this is the most economical way to use the stuff is as straight WVO in a secondary fuel system. Heated WVO works just like diesel. I can get into more of my findings if anyone would like.