Tere and I went camping this weekend in the Great Smokies, a real treat in and of itself. We were there just one night, but since the campground had no hookups, we relied on the house batteries to power the heater fan motor throughout the night. About 5 AM, Tere noticed the fan motor seemed to be laboring, so she tried to start the generator. That didn't work. The information panel listed the condition of the house batteries as "poor". After starting the Barth engine, she was then able to start the generator. After letting it run for an hour, she turned it off and the house batteries operated the heater blower motor until 8 AM when we again started the generator. After driving home that day, the house batteries showed "fair".
Two questions:
We have deep cycle Optima yellow tops for the house and an Opima red top for the engine. All were bought in 1997. They have always been hooked up to shore power when the Barth is not in use and we use an "Intelligent" tender to keep things ok. Are we probably experiencing batteries that are so old that they don't hold a charge for very long?
Second, When on generator or shore power, are the DC systems still running off the batteries and the converter/charger is just keeping the batteries up, or does the converter/charger actually take over the job of feeding DC current to the DC system?
Assuming we need new batteries, should we go to 6 volt and piggy back them? Also what about AGM batteries versus the gel type of the Optimas? Are the lithium ion batteries I keep hearing about available for deep cycle applications?
Thanks
Humbo (AKA Jim)

I am sure your batteries are from 2007 not 1997. If from 1997 I will be getting a pair for mine. Running the heat on house batteries is a load. The colder the temp, the less output of the batteries , the more the blower has to run. My guess is that your batteries are fine for lights, But the blower moter is a high amp drain.
Barth's of our age are not the best sealed units. Windows leak, aluminum sides transfer heat and cold. You will even find that wall beside your fridge is not insulated at all.
Depending on how often you are going to be camping like this you might consider one of those 1000w honda gen. instead of spending on new batteries.
Another option is a installing one of those ceramic ventless heaters. The wall next to the steps seams to be the best location for one.
You house DC is comming from both Batteries and converter. As long as Draw is less than converter is putting out the rest is going to battery charge. If draw is greater than converter output, it will draw from batteries. There is not a disconect when on shore or gen.
So how were the Smokies?

Doorman

quote:

Originally posted by Doorman:

Depending on how often you are going to be camping like this you might consider one of those 1000w honda gen. instead of spending on new batteries.


Doorman

I share your enthusiasm for a little Honda, but for the money, a 2000 offers the ability to run a microwave and a portable air conditioner. Not at the same time, of course. We use a 10,000 BTU Sanyo Costco portable air conditioner, and it does well into the high nineties or low hundreds. The living room Coleman is just 13,500 BTUs, which is not a lot more, but it has a much better fan for really hot weather.

And, of course, a microwave is handy.

If only battery charging is needed, an XL650 will power a 25 amp charger, which is fine for two batteries.

Optimas do not have as much capacity for the dollar or the size as good conventional deep cycle batteries.

We find furnaces to be battery wasters, and use a small propane heater with two ranges, 6000 and 9000 BTUs.

Yes, they were purchased in 1997 by the previous owner. The furnace is a Suburban propane furnace that came with the Barth but I can't find the amp draw of the blower motor in the specs. Anyone know what it might be? Bill, how do you vent the portable propane heaters you use? Since most campgrounds want you to turn off the generators after a reasonable time at night, we would need to have some batteries that would be good enough to run the blower motor until the morning when it's ok to turn the generator back on.
Humbo (aka Jim)

quote:

Originally posted by Jim and Tere:
Bill, how do you vent the portable propane heaters you use?

There are three schools of thought.

1. leave a window or roof hatch cracked.

2. Use a heater with an oxygen depletion shutoff.

3. Don't run it when sleeping.

quote:

Since most campgrounds want you to turn off the generators after a reasonable time at night, we would need to have some batteries that would be good enough to run the blower motor until the morning when it's ok to turn the generator back on.

For maximum life, my rule of thumb is you should not run your batteries below half. When I want to check this, I do it by disconnecting the ground, walking the dog for an hour, and taking a DVM reading on return. I then add .1V to that reading and refer to the battery manufacturer's chart to determine my SOC. This is not the stated procedure, but it has proven accurate. Most sources say to wait a bunch of hours for a reading.

If your compartment allows, a pair of six volt golf cart batts is very good. If they are too tall, there are a couple of tricks. Otherwise, a pair of 12 volt trolling motor batteries is good. They are true deep cycle and much better than many batteries labelled marine or combination cranking and deep cycle. Talk to fisherman about their preferences. They know.

A hydrometer reading is also good, but is a little more work.

I prefer the catalytic heaters. No CO discharge and use no more O2 than a third person.

Our ultimate solution was to move to the desert.

14 years on house batteries. You got your money out of them. My furnace pulls 5.2 amps. 2 new 105 amp hr. batteries, 50 % discharge, about 20 HRs of running furnace only.

Doorman

I agree; get a couple of golf cart batteries and wire in series (they're taller than regular 12V batteries) or as bill h suggests, trolling motor batteries. I have the golf cart batts, and they'll run the TV and furnace all night.

My '89 Regency does not have separate house batteries. It has a battery to start the drive engine and a second battery to start the generator engine.

Which of the two acts as the "house battery"? Or do both?

Is it unusual not to have separate "house batteries"?

14 YEARS that is what I need to get .In Florida they do not last that long. I will probably get 5years, I USE 4 12 VOLT DEEP CYCLE
lenny

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Castner:
My '89 Regency does not have separate house batteries. It has a battery to start the drive engine and a second battery to start the generator engine.

Which of the two acts as the "house battery"? Or do both?

Is it unusual not to have separate "house batteries"?

You can be sure there are two separate circuits, and what you describe as the "generator" battery is the house battery. What is unusual is that you have only one. When running, the generator charges only the house battery. With the engine running, the alternator charges (or should) both the chassis/engine battery and the house battery.

quote:

Originally posted by bill h:
For maximum life, my rule of thumb is you should not run your batteries below half.

As has been previously discussed.

You should know that a 50% state of charge on a 12v battery is not 6 volts!

12.15 volts is a little less then 50% State of Charge - Anything less then 11.8 volts is considered a fully discharged battery.

Percentage of Charge Corrected to
80o F Open-Circuit Voltage

100% 12.73V
90% 12.62
80% 12.50
70% 12.37
60% 12.24
50% 12.10
40% 11.96
30% 11.81
20% 11.66
10% 11.51

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
I agree; get a couple of golf cart batteries and wire in series (they're taller than regular 12V batteries) or as bill h suggests, trolling motor batteries. I have the golf cart batts, and they'll run the TV and furnace all night.

The differences between a series and parallel circuit.

You still want 12v - you just want to get it with a good reserve capacity. 2 batteries rated at 6 volts are doubled to 12v when placed in a series circuit. Image 1 & image 3 below.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Castner:
My '89 Regency does not have separate house batteries.

Like most Barths, mine came with separate chassis and house batteries. Mine was wired to use the house battery to crank the generator.

quote:

It has a battery to start the drive engine and a second battery to start the generator engine. Which of the two acts as the "house battery"?

Probably the same one that cranks the genset.

quote:

Or do both?

Unlikely unless someone rewired it that way.

quote:

Is it unusual not to have separate "house batteries"?

Unusual, but not unheard of. For example, my battery tray is fully taken up by four 6 volt golf cart batteries. They serve as both house and chassis batteries. I have no room for a cranking battery there, and do not feel the need for one, anyway, so I avoided location issues.

There are sources that say a deep cycle battery is intended for long gentle discharges as opposed to a cranking battery, which is intended for short, heavy discharges.

There is some truth to this, in theory, but, as you will often read here, "It Depends".

A properly-sized deep cycle battery can handle short term heavy discharges. The uphill startup load on a golf cart with two overweight golfers is a good example. Large inverter draw is another. My 3000 watt inverter has a max draw of 250 amps, which is more than cranking my 502. The 502 has a gear reduction mini-starter which draws around 200 amps for the brief time it cranks. As a parlor trick, I have used my motorcycle battery to start it.

The only downside to this set up is that if I run my house batteries down, the gen might not start. Jumper cables from the toad would take care of that, but it has never happened. Susan and I are pretty alert, so the batts never too low. I have considered cobbling up a low voltage alarm, but just never got rountuit.

A couple of Trojan engineers have told me (sotto voce) that their T-105 is good for 550 amps cranking load. We can extrapolate from that and divine that a good deep cycle battery can handle starting loads of twice its rated 20 hour capacity. Needless to say, the larger the battery in relation to the cranking load, the longer the battery life will be. Hilly golf courses have shorter battery life than level ones, and often have larger battery trays in their carts. Taylor Dunn, the maker of our runaround carts at work, sized their battery banks for level ground, since airports are usually level. Their golf carts had larger battery banks, since hills are often encountered.

From my reading and observation I cannot find any Barth that was built that had the MH factory modify the chassis. They bought them all! That said the chassis left the factory (Gillig, Spartan, GMC, Chev., etc) running. It had a chassis battery somewhere, and it was usually in the engine compartment, not a tray. So mine has two 8d starting batteries in the diesel engine bay, and four 6v Trojans in the house tray. If the chassis came without a battery how would it be moved? Someone must have removed the stwrting battery or relocated it. It defies the great design and workmanship of Barth to create a disaster when your one and only batteries get used up. Of course the compressed air system for accelerator, brakes, suspension, step and vacuum makes one set of fan belts the disiaster maker when they fail while driving. So maybe, but I think you had a separate chassis battery at one point in the coaches life.

quote:

From my reading and observation I cannot find any Barth that was built that had the MH factory modify the chassis. They bought them all! That said the chassis left the factory (Gillig, Spartan, GMC, Chev., etc) running. It had a chassis battery somewhere, and it was usually in the engine compartment, not a tray. So mine has two 8d starting batteries in the diesel engine bay, and four 6v Trojans in the house tray. If the chassis came without a battery how would it be moved? Someone must have removed the stwrting battery or relocated it. It defies the great design and workmanship of Barth to create a disaster when your one and only batteries get used up. Of course the compressed air system for accelerator, brakes, suspension, step and vacuum makes one set of fan belts the disiaster maker when they fail while driving. So maybe, but I think you had a separate chassis battery at one point in the coaches life.


Tom K.

Tom,

I think he's saying his coach has two batteries. He's referred to them as 1) a starting battery and 2) a generator starting battery. What he has, I believe, is 1) a coach "starting " battery and a 2) House battery - that happens to start the generator.

This has been a confusing thread (s)