This is going to sound silly, but how do you time a 454 in an 85 Regal? I mean, I know how to hook up the timing light and all that stuff, but how in the world can you position your eyeball to see the mark? My son-in-law was up here last night and he's pretty good but there was no way he could get in a position to see the mark. Are we relagated to the 'time by drive' method? As in warm it up, floor it up hill, if it pings, back it off, if it doesn't advance it, until you're just at the place before it starts to ping.
Like I said, pretty stupid.
Jim

No, that's not stupid.

That's perhaps the best way. I do it every time I climb a hill. In fact, many computerized cars use a knock sensor to back off the spark until the pinging stops. It is best done on a hot day and a steep hill.

Many 454 motor homers use more advance than the sticker setting, anyway.

The P30 454 is timed from underneath. On person reads the timing marks illuminated by the light and then runs upstairs to make corrections. If this is no fun, a second person can make the corrections on command from the person underneath. I have a degree scale mounted around the distributor hole and a pointer on the distributor.

Pull off the cap and the rotor to check this...

Inspect the 2 weights in the distributor. If they are sticking, seized or the 2 springs (pictured in Orange) are missing you'll need to address this too. Big time issues on the distributors as the lack of use will contribute to this condition.



Also, with the cap off, suck a little air out of the hose that is attached to the distributor to see if the vacuum advance is working. I use a suction tool for this but a mouth on a clean hose will work too. Just make sure it'll hold the vacuum too.

While you have the cap off, check for the Red Dust of Death. If it builds up inside the cap, it can cause problems.

Lightly lube the centrifugal mechanism, then wipe it clean.

Check the flexible wires to the stuff inside. Sometimes it starts to wear or break.

This opens up a whole new realm of concern. It is possible to tune the advance curve of the HEI distributor with a proper selection of weights, springs, and plates.

Summit Racing offers a slew of products, for weight kits and vacuum advance kits.

Over at http://www.irv2.com/forums/f65...pg-issue-56279.html a guy named Jim Elliott is offering what to my level of awareness seems to be good advice:

"All of those "Over the counter" centers & weights are junk...Stock 375 centers and 41 weights are what you are looking for cuz they provide a 22º mechanical advance. Might find some at the salvage yard, Just look at some older points distributers cuz they will fit the HEI.
The 375 & 41 are self stopping around 22º mechanical....Lighter springs are for faster advance, The present springs are good for garage doors..
Springs are difficult setting up and thats why I say find someone with the ignition curve machine for proper setup, With the 3 speed trannie I would have the mechanical advance ALL IN by 3,000 RPM.
When you get that mess setup then the vacuum advance must be cut back cuz the norm is 25º vacuum advance which will be way toooo much and thats what GM sets the stock settings (smog).
(Stock) 4º base, 16º mechanical along with VA of 25º = 45º runing down the slab with good vacuum (above 6-7")...My way is
10º base, 22º mechanical and vacuum can set at 10º for a total of 42º, Remember with hill climbs with little to NO vacuum the stock setup is limiting you to 20º max...New setup with the properly curve dist with NO VACUUM is 32º up the hill which is a huge difference and allows your engine to run much cooler..
"

This is making me think I should have found a distributor specialist with an advance testing machine last year. It looks like a specialist would need to have a Sun 504 machine.

It looks like there is some optimization of the curve that can be done to assist with power, fuel economy, and keeping the engine running cooler.

happy motoring!
Matt

The timing tab for Motorhome 454's is down below at about the 5 o'clock position as viewed from the front, if memory serves and I believe you use the number 8 cylinder to set it. PM me and I will pull the manual. Make SURE you can "twist" the rotor which would indicate the mechanical advance is not stuck. Those '80's HEI's had a problem with that. If it needs lube, DO NOT USE WD40! It will explode as the engine warms up and the stuff starts to vaporize in the distributor.
Billy T

Oh, for the simpler times 35 years ago in highschool when you could time the Beetle with a the engine off and a 12v light.....K&E

quote:

Originally posted by billyt53:
If it needs lube, DO NOT USE WD40! It will explode as the engine warms up and the stuff starts to vaporize in the distributor.

Wow... that's good to know.

If memory serves correctly, I have used white lithium and maybe sewing machine oil in a small dripper can before. What would you recommend?

I don't run into many distributors on the big diesel engines.

quote:

Originally posted by BarthBluesmobile:
This opens up a whole new realm of concern. It is possible to tune the advance curve of the HEI distributor with a proper selection of weights, springs, and plates.

Summit Racing offers a slew of products, for weight kits and vacuum advance kits.

Over at http://www.irv2.com/forums/f65...pg-issue-56279.html a guy named Jim Elliott is offering what to my level of awareness seems to be good advice:

"All of those "Over the counter" centers & weights are junk...Stock 375 centers and 41 weights are what you are looking for cuz they provide a 22º mechanical advance. Might find some at the salvage yard, Just look at some older points distributers cuz they will fit the HEI.
The 375 & 41 are self stopping around 22º mechanical....Lighter springs are for faster advance, The present springs are good for garage doors..
Springs are difficult setting up and thats why I say find someone with the ignition curve machine for proper setup, With the 3 speed trannie I would have the mechanical advance ALL IN by 3,000 RPM.
When you get that mess setup then the vacuum advance must be cut back cuz the norm is 25º vacuum advance which will be way toooo much and thats what GM sets the stock settings (smog).
(Stock) 4º base, 16º mechanical along with VA of 25º = 45º runing down the slab with good vacuum (above 6-7")...My way is
10º base, 22º mechanical and vacuum can set at 10º for a total of 42º, Remember with hill climbs with little to NO vacuum the stock setup is limiting you to 20º max...New setup with the properly curve dist with NO VACUUM is 32º up the hill which is a huge difference and allows your engine to run much cooler..
"


Matt

I have known Jim for years, and his advice is Golden. Interestingly enough, we both know and use the same distributor guy. Or did, until he retired and moved.

The problem is, the weights he calls out are hard to find. Before I met Jim, I had a several 454s, and had ended up somewhere close. My 502 requires different curving, though, so I can't offer any exact advice.

I use welded weights and a Crane vacuum can to get close. Then I fine tune it as I drive with an MSD 6E ignition unit with their cockpit advance control, so my curve doesn't have to be exact. I find that temperature, grade, load (toad, boat or solo), quality of gas, and altitude all change my optimum timing, anyway, so one curve will never fit all.

quote:

If memory serves correctly, I have used white lithium and maybe sewing machine oil in a small dripper can before. What would you recommend?

The best product is Super Lube General Purpose Grease, available at Harbor Freight. If the shaft can't be pulled from the housing, Super lube precision applicator or SL aerosol.

Bill H, when you say the 454 is timed from underneath, do you mean laying on your back, looking up at the front pulley? Dan,(son-in-law) kept trying to find a way to look down from the top as you do in a car with a hood on it and he just couldn't see the mark.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim and Tere:
Bill H, when you say the 454 is timed from underneath, do you mean laying on your back, looking up at the front pulley?

Yup.

Do I get a prize for the shortest post on this forum?

No

I considered saying "ja", "da" or "si", but that would have been stretching it.