so area 54 was really just some airline mechanics exercising stored planes.....

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Originally posted by TJ:
so area 54 was really just some airline mechanics exercising stored planes.....

"Area 54, Where Are You?"

If you are thinking of Area 51, that is in southern Nevada, and does have a lot of mystery about it.

There is no mystery at Roswell. There used to be. My time there left me convinced that something happened. Don't know what, though. Just know it is being kept quiet. The truth is hard to divine, what with the equally shrill Naysayers and True Believers.

I just pulled an oil sample on my 8V71 and had it analyzed at the local Peterbilt service center. Now i have a base line for reference on all future samples. Cost was $15

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I only mention the airline thing because we kept such good records and even had reliability engineers that constantly analyzed the data to try to make the planes last longer. Information was shared with other airlines and manufacturers, who also had reliability engineers. They learned what worked.

Our lab and field engineers at Shell (of which I was one of the latter), and, I'm sure, our counterparts at other oil companies, did extensive studies on wear, base stock deterioration, and additive depletion. Our auto test fleet at Wood River, IL had around 50 cars, with an average of 400K miles. The Champ was a Pontiac Catalina with 750K+, which wasn't even a lubricant test car - it tested gasoline and additives. None of those cars had ever had an overhaul or even had the heads pulled, other than to replace seals and gaskets.

None was on a special program; the manufacturers' recommendations were followed.

We did analyze diesel oil for most of our customers, but the primary object was to detect additive depletion, base stock deterioration, and wear (in that order). That was in the days of metallic ash detergent dispersants.

I'm not convinced independent analysis today can tell much besides the latter two, and excessive wear readings may call an alarm too late.

Anyway, I would NOT stretch oil change intervals based on independent analysis, because it wouldn't know what to look for.

Besides, somewhere I heard, "Oil's cheaper than metal."

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Originally posted by noble97monarch:

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The reason for this is the cookoff of the oil in the turbo. by shutting down the diesel, without lowering turbo temps, you will cause the oil to cook inside the turbo. This cooking will eventually wear out a turbo sooner. 3 minutes cooldown is generally considered long enough to accomplish this.

Don't some engines have a turbo oil reservoir designed to gravity feed oil to it to prevent the cook-off?

Forgot to reply. The gravity feed is to prevent starvation, not cook-off. The issue then was that it took turbos (due to their mass) some time to spool down. The lower mass in modern turbos generally makes this a non-issue, which is covered by allowing the EGT to dissipate.

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Originally posted by Bill N.Y.:
The reason for this is the cookoff of the oil in the turbo. by shutting down the diesel, without lowering turbo temps, you will cause the oil to cook inside the turbo. This cooking will eventually wear out a turbo sooner. 3 minutes cooldown is generally considered long enough to accomplish this.

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Originally posted by noble97monarch:
Don't some engines have a turbo oil reservoir designed to gravity feed oil to it to prevent the cook-off?

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Originally posted by Rusty:
The lower mass in modern turbos generally makes this a non-issue, which is covered by allowing the EGT to dissipate.

Starting in which year would you consider modern Rusty? The newest Barth we have here is a 1998.

As Rusty stated.

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The gravity feed is to prevent starvation, not cook-off.

Once you have cooked the oil, you now have crapola (proper term ), not oil, in your turbo well. If your turbo temps are too high, you will cause cookoff of the oil. If you do not have a EGT Gauge - let it sit for 3 minutes at an idle before you shut it down.

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Originally posted by bill h:


"Area 54, Where Are You?"

It does seem my memory has been jumbled. Either my CRS has taken over or the little gray cells are still frozen from the long winter.

Actually Gary, no one was supposed to know about Area 54, Area 51 was a cover up for Area 54. You should prepare for a visit from some guys in dark sunglasses.

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Starting in which year would you consider modern Rusty? The newest Barth we have here is a 1998.

Hard to say. When I worked on Mercedes TDs, the engine was supposed to idle for IIRC 2-3 minutes. After M-B added an oil gallery to the turbo, this was reduced - I THINK to 1 minute.

I was with Shell late '60s-early '70s, and few of my OTR truck customers had turbodiesels.

Changes in turbo and impeller design and in available allows has made turbochargers lighter and smaller, turning at higher RPM.

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Originally posted by bill h:

"Area 54, Where Are You?"

If you are thinking of Area 51, that is in southern Nevada, and does have a lot of mystery about it.

I do remember "car 54, where are you?...but that’s something completely different!

I do a lot of work with modern ‘race’ turbos and the refinements are pretty impressive. For example I dynoed a 2.5 liter (that’s 151 cu in to nonmetric folks!) race motor last month – it made 620hp. Here are a couple of technical tid bits -

On the turbos I use for the race engines its not
uncommon to see shaft speeds of 140,000 rpm.

If the engine stops while is running at high idle (2,000 rpm) the turbo may continue spinning for another 15 seconds after the engine has stopped.

Its common to have an aux electric pump to continue to pump coolant through the turbo for a minimum of 30 – 60 seconds after shut down - these turbos are water cooled to keep the temps down at the bearings.

I remember reading about F-1 turbos being cooled in a different way, possibly by creating a vacuum so there is no temp? Or hydrogen? The article was actually about how these cars re-use power from backing down very tech and interesting but I didn't understand it all and it was a while back when I read it .

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Posted 03-17-2010 04:19 AM Hide Post

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Originally posted by bill h:

"Area 54, Where Are You?"

If you are thinking of Area 51, that is in southern Nevada, and does have a lot of mystery about it.



I do remember "car 54, where are you?...but that’s something completely different! Big Grin

Car 54, Where Are You?" (1961)

* For the black-and-white location shots, the patrol cars were painted red so as not to confuse the local populace.

* The theme song to the show: There's a hold up in the Bronx, Brooklyn's broken out in fights/ There's a traffic jam in Harlem that's backed up to Jackson Heights/ There's a scout troop short a child, Khrushchev's due at Idlewild! Car 54 where are you?

* The large circular object on the dashboard between the two officers is an auxiliary fan, in the days before cars had air conditioning.

Clearly the reference to Khrushchev, the "flying saucer" like fan on the dashboard, the patrol cars being painted to disguise them......these are all clear indications that the show and Roswell Area 51 were intimately connected......plus it has to be true as I read it on the internet.

a...n...d.......just so we don't completely lose this thread.....who invented the turbo and where did they get the idea from

Ok...so it was Swiss inventor Alfred Buchi in 1905, but I'm sure he didn't JUST invent it. He found it lying in a field next to a mysteriously green glowing pile of unknown metal.....I suggest!