Over the weekend after I returned from Mohave, I was doing some clean up and found that my coolant seepage around the water pump has returned! This time is is evident that the coolant is seeping out of the head just below the thermostat area. I had previously removed the water pump in an effort to find and fix the problem but it was so greasy and dirty the exact trail of coolant wasn't clear, now it is!



Heading out to talk with some Cummins experts about this, need to find out if this get really bad fast or it will continue to seep for awhile.

Not really in the mood to head out to the East coast in two weeks with this issue ready to cause a major breakdown!

I could get the head off and the gasket replaced before leaving but it will be a MAJOR effort. With 120K miles on the clock, also have to consider refreshing the head.

Seems this is a fairly common issue with the early 5.9 engines and not necessarily connected to the engine application. I have found a lot of references to this in marine applications.

More later after I know more.

I had a leak of undetermed origin. Was out east at the time and was adding about a gallon of water a day to the radiator. Finally went and bought some stop leak, and it worked.

Your posting just reminded me that I need to determene the source.

quote:

Originally posted by Gary Carter:
bought some stop leak, and it worked.

Gary, do you have a preference on stop leaks?

This is olroy, not Gary, but FWIW, I have had good luck with the stop leak that looks like powdered aluminum suspended in a liquid. Can't remember the brand name. I've also used an ugly-looking liquid with gooey little blobs of something suspended in it, but that one didn't work.

quote:

Originally posted by olroy:
I've also used an ugly-looking liquid with gooey little blobs of something suspended in it.

Could that one be Bars Leaks? Stuff that looked like pig food in a liquid?

Stopped by a friends shop that does Cummins performance, had a chance to see what the inside of the engine looks like after someone had used some sort of stop leak material. The internal oil heat exchanger was plugged!

If I were on the road and had no choice to get home, I think I would go for it but, I don't think it a good idea to start this trip knowing that I have an issue and it could get worse which it seems to be doing now.

I have just purchased all the stuff to do the head gasket exchange, roughly about $350 worth and starting as soon as I finish this post. Will take pictures along the way (not as good about this as I should be, but will try) and post when I finish. I will take it down I5 for a couple of hundred miles after just to get is all dialed in satisfactorily and know that the issues are solved for the start of the trip Sep 13!

I will be watching, I have the same engine in my 01 Dodge.

John

Update:

Took 3 hours to have the head off and on my bench for cleaning and R&R. It was the head gasket that gave up so I am thankful that I took this time to do it right. It would only get worse with time and heat cycles.

Here is a picture of the head area that was leaking:

Here is the matching area of the block that show the compromised gasket:


Seems to be a bit of a common problem on the early Cummins engines, not a systemic issues but quite common particularly in the marine applications. I have upgraded to the latest marine head gasket which is now the standard replacement gasket for the 5.9 engine.

The good news is that the head looks great, no cracks, or other signs of deterioration. I went over the surface with 800 grit paper (on a flat aluminum block) to get the surface as smooth as possible and did the same on the block, found no corrosion pockets, looks really good for 120K miles!

Will be taking the injectors for cleaning and calibration tomorrow and getting all the misc stuff that I need to finish the project. I hope to have the head on tomorrow night and doing the initial startup on Thursday. that will give me a day or so until the weekend where I will take it for a 400 mile break in trip.

Looks like I will make it to the DC GTG after all! Been a great incentive to fix it fast!!


Fixing or R&R a lot of stuff while in the area, and cleaning up a bit, I know it will not last long but at least it will start out clean!

All in all, it hasn't been a bad job---so far---!

More later

Great pictures Ed. Anytime you're in Tennessee with nothing to do, come on over and piddle with my 454.
Jim

Got the head back on the engine late Thursday night and after getting the air out of the injection lines, it fired right up, ran smooth but it was late and I didn't want to disturb the neighbors.

On Friday I started it up and brought up to operating temperature for the first time, went up to 185 and then dropped to around 175 after the thermostat opened and then stabilized at 180. Let her cool down and then ran it up to temp again for the second heat cycle, check the coolant level and it was down just a bit added coolant after it had cooled and then ran it again for the third heat cycle.

Today I checked the coolant level and it was full and there was an exchange between the overflow tank so everything appears to work as it should. I will take off the valve covers today and check/reset the valve clearances as I am sure the head gasket has compressed a slight amount during the first series of heat cycle.

I plan to take it out to I5 today for a test run at 100 degrees outside temp to see if it all is well. One thing that happened is I lost some if not all R12 when moving the compressor off the engine. I noticed a slight "hissing" sound and found one of the hoses at the compressor had a clamp that wasn't fully tightened (lost its tension) probably where my R12 loss was coming from in the past. Crazy to use that hose and clamp system for the types of pressures involved in the HVAC cooling system. Probably time to look at hard line/AN fittings.

Some pictures, write up later:

Ramp used to slide head out and back in from the rear of the bed box:

Head in place ready to be lowered after head gasket was put in place on the block:
http://www.mwrench.com/barth/h...ead%20in%20place.jpg
Used two of the longest old head bolts with their heads cut off to act as a guide to bring the head down correctly and avoid any possible scuffing of the new head gasket:


Ready to put in the new head bolts and torque them all down:

The remainder of the work was to replace all the equipment that had to be removed to get the head off.

Cost:
To Cummins for all gaskets, head bolts, exhaust header bolts, thermostat $421.00
for specialized tools and cleaning compounds: $55.00
Injector testing: $20.00
Total cost: $496.00 (doesn't include all the running around and fuel costs)

Time:
3.5 hours to remove the head
2.0 hours to R&R the head and block
4.0 hours to install head and return to running condition.
2.0 additional hours will be spent on final valve adjustment and cleanup.
Total time: 11.5 hours

If nothing else rears its ugly head, we should be good to go to start our trip East on Sep 14.

Looks like fun. Nothing more rewarding than repairing your own RV and taking it on the road. If it was a V8 you would only be half way their.
One more reason to go with a 6 cyl Cummins engine.
Neil

quote:

Originally posted by MWrench:
If nothing else rears its ugly head, we should be good to go...

Now, you own the entire coach and all of its systems. If anything from a headlight to static on the radio happens, you're bound to hear the owners say...

"Ever since you replaced the head gasket, the toilet has an odor"

Oh, wait... you own that coach... Nevermind.

BTW: Nice Job Ed!

Do you have to re-torque head and exhaust manifold bolts on the diesels like you do on the gas engines?

No not on the Cummins, they use "torque to yield" bolts, that is:

First torque all bolts to 66 lb/ft, then there are 6 bolts that are torqued to 89 lb/ft, I usually leave it for about an hour to let it settle in and then repeat the process. After that all bolts are pulled 90 degrees which actually stretches the bolt a bit, that is the "yield" process. As the engine goes thru the heat cycles the bolts will stretch and relax a bit more and in that process work hardens to the proper torque required to maintain the seal. This system is not designed to be re-torqued.

Cummins says that you may re-use the bolts if they are within a certain length range, I think that is VERY dangerous and wouldn't do it. I have had years of experience with torque to yield head bolts and have seen many times when reused they snap.

I do re-torque the exhaust manifold bolts, they are not in yield mode so that is safe.

A friend that gets well over 1000 HP from these engines uses ARP head bolts and they are not "yield" style bolts and they do have to be re-torqued at least three times.

guess that's why the bill to cummins was near $500.00. That number seamed steep for a gasket.

Great info, I will file it away if I ever need it on my dodge.

thx
John