Topic moved from a sold coach to this for discussion. 1998 Monarch 38 ft

What is the definition of a "Widebody Barth"... I think we're about to find out.

---

---

quote:

Originally posted by Fred & Cindy:
Is this coach considered a wide body? And... how old are the tires?

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin:
Fred, the front windows appear to indicate a wide body. The center window does appear to be an inch or two narrower than my wide body.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
IIRC, the widebody Monarchs were either 98" or 100", not the usual 102".

I hope this is going to be a good thread.

Here is another post from 2011 about this same topic.

Moved Reply:

Does this hold true for this Barth also??

quote:

Originally posted by Bill N.Y.:

BTW: No, this is not a widebody coach. All of the Barth's produced under the Barth RSV, from that era, with that front end, has an extra strip of glass.

Widebody or Not?

Moved Reply:

Good question. I just measured it. The hull is 100 inches wide, with rear bumper overhang 102 total width.

By comparison the Regal is 92 inch hull, 95-6 wide at bumper.

Moved Reply:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve VW:
Good question. I just measured it. The hull is 100 inches wide, with rear bumper overhang 102 total width.

By comparison the Regal is 92 inch hull, 95-6 wide at bumper.

Thank you Steve for measuring both of your coaches width, I have not measured any of the RSV model styles.

My assumption is that those were external measurements? Not owning a boat I'm unsure if hull measurements are considered internal or external (thinking probably external) shell measurements.

The "prevailing theory" has been that the widebody coaches from pre Barth RSV was 102" shell with 104" bumper overhang. The extra piece of glass on those pre RSV models would seem to indicate a 6" difference, and the RSV models 4" strip... So, I went out to my 91 gaso puller, using the inside of the aluminum bumper as a caliper, I came up with... just slightly under 96".

Using the same guide I measured my widebody coach and came up with 102" with 104" bumper overhang.

I wonder if your 1986 Regal, not having that one piece composite windshield frame & front brow cap, and my 1991 having that setup made those coaches 96" wide or 4" wider than your 1986 model.

Is it our new thought process that the pre "one piece composite windshield frame & front brow cap" Regal was 92" wide, the ones made with that composite brow Regal were 96" wide, with the RSV style nose at 99½" and then the widebody "one piece composite windshield frame & front brow cap" Regency is 102¼"... ???

---

92" wide 96" wide 99½" wide 102¼" wide

---

An interesting observation that I'd love to explore more.


A "one piece composite windshield frame & front brow cap" ~ first installed in late April of 1987

Bill N.Y.

Moved Reply:

All of my measurements were outside dimension of just the body.

I am surprised your Regal is wider than mine. The brow cap is most of it, I wonder if the Oshkosh chassis has anything to do with it. We should measure some others pre and post 87 brow cap.

It appears that the "Widebody" distinction is unnecessary in the RSV line, they were all the same width.

The Regals and Regencies evidently did vary. The center strip in the windshield seems the giveaway with them. (It appears that the Monarchs have a different center strip width but they have different windshields than the earlier models, so we can't compare them directly there.)

So, is the 96 37ft tag axle GM chassis coach a Regal, Monarch, wide body…? Interesting.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve VW:
I am surprised your Regal is wider than mine. The brow cap is most of it, I wonder if the Oshkosh chassis has anything to do with it. We should measure some others pre and post 87 brow cap.

It appears that the "Widebody" distinction is unnecessary in the RSV line, they were all the same width.

Yeah, that surprised me too. I don't think the Oshkosh chassis did anything more than increase the lower compartment storage height and weight rating. I'd also have to agree with your "Widebody" distinction.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve VW:
So, is the 96 37ft tag axle GM chassis coach a Regal, Monarch, wide body…? Interesting.

Towards the end it seems that it didn't matter. But that configuration sounds closer to a Regal than anything else.

I think Nada & Kelly Blue Book didn't even denote the difference in the final years. They only report what Barth RSV was calling them and there's appeared to be little to no distinction with model names by then...

Tonka - 97 Monarch by Barth RSV

Body shell outside to outside dimension measured at lower beltline trim strip at rear of coach.

Body Shell 100 in.

Stainless steel bumpers outside to outside dimension at the bumper rubber rub strip.

Stainless steel bumper 102 in.

Thanks,
Wally

Good to hear from you. I just measured the interior width on mine and it is 98.25" wide inside.
I have the original order and delivery, invoice, and the copy of the MCO from factory. The up charge on a gillig chassis for a wide body was $5,000 according to the invoice.

quote:

Originally posted by sky:
I just measured the interior width on mine and it is 98.25" wide inside.

My Widebody is 98.25" wide on the interior as well so your exterior should be 102". We're trying to ascertain the exterior width of the different types of coaches our members have.

Here's a section of my blueprints, cropped, with the interior width of 98.25" on the diagram. I'm surprised these blueprints didn't have an exterior width measurement.

I do remember some changes in the law taking place over the years. At one time 96" was max including awnings handles etc. Then awnings etc. were not counted in width. Mirrors never counted. They then change the regs to allow 8'6" (102'). I have to believe the width changes followed the regulation at the time.

I have to say that I had not notice the 4' difference in the Brow windshield. It is easy to see the extra 2' on each side now that this subject has come up. I am surprised that this wasn't something that Barth didn't promote in there sales brochures.

This has become an interesting subject. Now gives more the reason for the brow front end.

I would also like to check the width of the Barth Bodies, pre 1974, that were produced with the shorter style front windshield.



Just like our own little "Data Tag Project", this too is a worthwhile task for the BarthMobile site and by extension it then becomes a resource for their owners.

Anyone that knows how to operate a tape measure is encouraged to add to this discussion.

Bill, my take on not having exterior dimensions is that they were not layout or build process. If you use the scale for the other dimensions the exterior should calculate. Emphasis on Should.

quote:

Originally posted by ccctimtation:
...If you use the scale for the other dimensions the exterior should calculate. Emphasis on Should.

Your emphases alludes to the other question... Was the RSV Barth's built with the same 2" wall thickness?

I spent several nights, at the Florida GTG, in Corey's beautiful coach and from what I remember the walls didn't seem different to me. But, would I have even noticed a 1/4" or 1/2" difference in wall thickness? IDK

I checked Tonka's electrical blueprints.

Interior dimension shown is 95.5 in (interior sidewalls face to face).

I also measured Tonka's sidewall thickness.

The sidewall thickness is 2 in (interior sidewall face to exterior shell aluminum skin face).

Total exterior width 99.5 in
(exterior aluminum shell skin to skin)

Total shell width 100 in (including belt line aluminum trim strip projections .25 in each side).

Thanks,
Wally

We've got the following "hard numbers" based on blueprints.

The Barth RSV Models from 1995 to late 1997 is 95.5" interior and 99.5" exterior skin to skin with 2" walls. (Tonka)

Regency widebody model at 98.25" interior and 102.25" exterior skin to skin with 2" walls. (Sky, Bill N.Y.)

Soft numbers based on the "Tale of the Tape".

The "Later Coaches" from April of 1987 to December of 1994 with that "one piece composite windshield frame & front brow cap" and not having the extra strip of windshield in the middle. 96"

The "Earlier Coaches" without the one piece windshield frame from very late in 1973 to around April of 1987 coming in at 92"

Still looking for the width for the, Camper Inserts, Trailers, Shorter front windshield style coaches and the "Class C"

Hoping more people might get involved and possibly look at their blueprints for this discussion. Several more models need to be measured too.