All,
Heading out to a ballgame and the coach wouldn't start last Saturday evening. NOTHING from ignition switch. Coach batts excellent, tried jumping from new house batts: NOTHING. On the electronic shifter I checked I was in NEUTRAL, I tried to shift around to see if a solenoid/relay would release and ended up stuck in REVERSE! Coach showed 50 PSI on air gauges. I verified the parking brake was set.
I went to the engine compartment and manually pulled the engine cutoff back and tried to start (has worked before I replaced the cutoff solenoid) and remembered I'm stuck in NEUTRAL. How do I manually (from under the coach?) shift back to NEUTRAL so I can start troubleshooting my relays?
Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by Stratosurfer:
...and remembered I'm stuck in NEUTRAL.

You mean reverse right?

I would hook up an air compressor to your tanks so you'll have enough air psi to release the shifter lockout.

Yes, stuck in REVERSE.
I would think 50 PSI would be enough to shift. No? Seems I've started and shifted with far lower PSI in the past. I was thinking the shifter is hung and related to some relay that wouldn't let the coach start. I can add air press easily enough.

I need 70psi to operate my shifter.

Nick

Stratosurfer, I have had this happen to me once. I finally got under the coach and manually moved to shifter back to neutral. I believe that you move it from rear to front 2 clicks, from the best of my memory. If it is not, it is from the other direction. My coach will not crank if in any gear.
When this first happened, I had been under the coach doing something and I think I had rolled over and pushed it out of alignment. I called a friend about it when it would not start, and he said to try that because the start would not do nothing. Good luck. sky

Sky,
Thanks, this was what I was needing. Specifically so I need to look to find the shifter mechanism on the transmission. I can always hear it engaging, but I've never crawled around belowdecks looking for it.

Here's where I am at this point:
Nothing to ignition, no solenoid clicking:nothing
I have:
Good BATS Coach and House
100PSI on air: in from electric air compressor
Transmission in NUETRAL: thanks for tips
I have pulled the 8.3's cutoff manually backward:
Air Horn will not sound
COACH WILL NOT CRANK: I have a solenoid/relay issue somewhere and not really sure where to start.
Any thoughts appreciated.
Thanks

Send me a PM with your phone number and be prepared to go into this box with a test light. You'll need to give me a number that can make it out to your coach. I need to walk you through several tests, there's just too many different things that it could be.



It would help "a lot" if you could take a picture of the wiring inside this box and send it to me at bill_ny@barthmobile.com



Hopefully this image might help you out. It's from a Spartan Chassis but it is in a Breakaway. Pay attention to the relay in this image - check out each buss bar etc...

What a wonderful site/family this is.... I had to have Cloudy come over here and read Bill N.Y.'s last post.... Thank You Bill N.Y. you make this place happen!!!

Check the remote start switch in the engine compartment. If the switch is not in front position nothing will work. If it is in rear then you can confirm by pushing the start button in the engine compartment and if it starts you have found the problem.

After looking at these images, I am starting to agree with Lenny when he says...

quote:

I hate red wires

I don't have your phone number so we'll go this route first.

See the yellow line I have superimposed over the Red Wires? This is your Battery Hot wire and it first goes to that solenoid as a main junction point.

Make sure you have a GOOD GROUND for your test light.

Test to see if you have power to that wire end of the solenoid with the key off. Also let me know which "Buss Bar" (Highlighted in Blue) the cable goes to and if it has power there too.

Bill,
I sent a new pic of the bus to you. The solenoid is hot on RH side w 14V. The heavy gauge wire runs to a bus (not in the pic I sent earlier) that is the top of 3 busses on the RH side, and in the pic just sent. This 3rd bus RH side up top is hot at just under 14 v.
All this with key off.
Solenoid bad??
I'll call tomorrow.
Again thanks for all
Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Stratosurfer:
Solenoid bad??

Maybe... step 2.

With key on check this.



The wires circled in blown with the gray lettering should all be hot with the key on. The one in green should NOT BE HOT with the key on. If all of that is correct, then you DO NOT have a bad solenoid.

If the small diameter wire is HOT with the key on, and the bigger diameter wire is NOT HOT & the green wire is NOT HOT, then you do have a Bad Solenoid.

If the green wire is HOT with the key on, then you have a bad ground wire.

BTW: HOT only refers to voltage being present and does NOT refer to an actual temperature.

If it is a bad relay, then you need a new CONSTANT DUTY RELAY that looks like this.



It is important to note that the regular intermittent duty relays could look like this too.

If you do have a bad relay, you must make sure that the new one is rated for Continuous Duty. The one in the picture, from way up top, shows a part number of ST85 and is an acceptable replacement.



The ST85 is a 4 terminal constant duty relay.

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Separate section - just getting more info if the top is good and we need to go farther

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quote:

Originally posted by Stratosurfer:
I sent a new pic of the bus to you. The solenoid is hot on RH side w 14V. The heavy gauge wire runs to a bus (not in the pic I sent earlier) that is the top of 3 busses on the RH side, and in the pic just sent. This 3rd bus RH side up top is hot at just under 14 v.
All this with key off.

Is this image correct? That is a jumper bar in there?



If we do need to go farther, is there any chance (kind of tough I know) of getting a better picture that shows the entire electrical box in one or 2 shots?

If you take the pictures from the same length, there's a good chance that I can splice several images together.

On an unrelated note... so far.

To all. I want to bring your attention to this style relay.





This type of relay is an open style relay and is prone to corrosion and having things get caught in its contacts. Like bugs...

If you ever need to replace this type of relay, use this diagram to rewire to a better style relay.



NAPA: TEM 207648



NAPA: ECH AR272



History Lesson
Small bit of useless trivia, that open style relay is where we got the quote about debugging a computer.

quote:

First Computer Bug

~ The Bug ~

In 1947, Grace Murray Hopper was working on the Harvard University Mark II Aiken Relay Calculator (a primitive computer).

On the 9th of September, 1947, when the machine was experiencing problems, an investigation showed that there was a moth trapped between the points of Relay #70, in Panel F.

The operators removed the moth and affixed it to the log. The entry reads: "First actual case of bug being found."

The word went out that they had "debugged" the machine and the term "debugging a computer program" was born.