Last week I took the Barth out for a shakedown run... While driving, it stumbled, ran with a severe loss of power and black smoke from the exhaust.

I pulled over and checked it out. It appeared to me like it was low fuel psi or a bad fuel filter. I removed and replaced the filter with no increase in power. I drove it home and then halfway home I got full power again.

After pulling off the doghouse and rechecking it I found good fuel psi and I did have full engine power under a load. I decided that I wasn't going to second guess my initial gut feeling of low fuel psi.

I ordered up a new fuel pump from NAPA on Friday and proceeded to swap out the pump today.

As Rusty says... "It's Always Something"

My fuel pump is inside the fuel tank attached to the fuel pickup tube.

I found the fuel tank strap half torn on the clamp side. Looks like it wasn't long for this world so I made a mental note to weld the strap. Good thing I was having a perceived fuel psi issue as a dropped tank, from a broken tank strap, would have been a nightmare on the side of the road.

After dropping the tank I pulled out the sending unit. There was a burnt wire inside the fuel tank going to my fuel pump.



Yes... exactly. Very scary indeed. But this was not to be my only issue.

I drove up to NAPA and took the pump out of the box. It looked nothing like what I needed. I had NAPA recheck and they then came up with something that "Looked Like It Would Work"...



I have to agree... it looks like it'll work. Problem is, it is for a 1991 >> Ford >> Tempo >> 2.3 L 140 CID L4 Engine

I decided that my Ford 7.5L 460 CID engine was considerably larger and probably required more psi or volume so I felt it prudent to look for another pump.

But, if someone braver than I wants to try... that Tempo Fuel Pump is NAPA# NFP P74104

After conferring with Ford, I decided to give Freightliner Customer Care another go. They looked up the part number and told me it crossed over to an hour meter.

This was the second time they said this, back on Friday before I ordered the pump from NAPA they told me the same thing.

I asked them to dig a little deeper and to get back in touch with me as I was dead in the water and needed to move.

They located the part in their Memphis Warehouse as a complete fuel pump and fuel tank sending unit. I put a rush order on it and I was told it will be here at 10:30 am tomorrow.

Now for specs and part numbers. My fuel tank is 60 gallons, the fuel pump and sending unit is TFF-0300 16420. As of today, there are only 16 left.

~Fuel Filler Hose: NAPA# NBH 1045 >> Gas Filler Neck Hose, 2"
~Fuel Vent Hose for filler pipe: NAPA# NBH H1712 >> Multi Duty Hose: I.D. .625" - O.D. .9375" - Working Pressure 250 psi

Currently, here is what the back end of my Barth looks like...



Yes, the leaves have changed and are now falling. We have had several nights of frost already.

Dude...I'm so glad you found that. It sounds like it could have been disastrous. Are you sure you want to go back with the same setup? And are you sure that the fuel pump is the problem and not the electrical short?

quote:

Originally posted by jsloan:
Dude...I'm so glad you found that.

Dude, me too. Thank you for the positive thoughts.

quote:

Originally posted by jsloan:
It sounds like it could have been disastrous.

Doesn't look too healthy... so yeah, it could have been.

quote:

Originally posted by jsloan:
Are you sure you want to go back with the same setup?

The GTG is in 4 days... not much time to re-engineer and test and then get something else together before the departure time if it doesn't work. I did have a 1988 Ford F350 service truck with a HP fuel pump mounted to the frame.



It had a lift pump mounted inside the tank. Maybe I can try to re-engineer this to work in my RV. Maybe I should leave it as is. I don't know... But I felt compelled to share my experience and maybe someone one day will see this and relate their issue/repair/problem and help me or them along to an eventual repair. At the least, anyone on our site with the 460 MPFI might want to look into this on their own... For all I know, this could have been a recalled issue.

quote:

Originally posted by jsloan:
And are you sure that the fuel pump is the problem and not the electrical short?

Define problem and electrical short.

What I mean is that...
...No, I am not sure that it was a fuel related issue that caused the severe loss of power. I am assuming it was a fuel related issue as it appeared to be starving for fuel.
...Yes, the fuel pump is downstream of all electrical load. So the burnt wire end is related to the load factor of the fuel pump. The only shorting condition, or excessive power draw, has to be at the end of the line. So I feel confident that the new fuel tank sending unit with the built in HP Fuel Pump will take care of this load factor.

But, is this my initial problem? I really don't know, and unless it acts up again I have no way of being sure what the problem really was. I am hoping that it doesn't act up again because I believe it was a loss of full fuel psi... Makes sense to me... at least, until it proves otherwise.

Where is that number to coachnet at???

This is apropos nothing but the fact I'm so old almost anything that happens to someone else reminds me of something that happened to me; especially the hair raising episodes. 30 years ago I owned a big old cruiser with twin gas Chrysler Crown marine engines. The tank held 250 gallons. Preparing for a for a long summer cruise, I went to our local marina to fuel up.

I opened the fill cap, stuffed the fueling nozzle in, switched on the gas pump, pulled the trigger, & waited while 150 gal. pumped in. When the vent began to burble, I let go of the trigger, pulled the nozzle out, & saw a spark jump between the nozzle & & the filler pipe. I shut the pump off, set the nozzle down, & saw something strange in the filler opening. The sun was bright, so I shaded it with my hand to see a little blue flame flickering there. I had enough time to imagine how far the explosion was going to blow me, before I blew out the flame. Then the sweat popped out.

In retrospect, I thank God I stuffed the nozzle into the grounded filler opening before I turned the pump on. If I had turned the pump on first, when that spark jumped, the fumes in the partially-filled tank probably would have been oxygen-rich enough to blow me, the boat, & the marina to smithereens.

Talk about dodging a bullet.

Olroy, we were only 20 miles upriver on our way to Chicago when I checked the bilge and saw the pump diaphragm was failing and putting a gas mist into the bilge. Real glad all in there met marine regs and that I had a spare pump. Bought the pump along with a bunch of other spares just because we would be some distance from help. Know the feeling

quote:

Originally posted by ccctimtation:
I checked the bilge and saw the pump diaphragm was failing and putting a gas mist into the bilge. Real glad all in there met marine regs

My marine pumps have all had a hose going to the spark arrestor to catch anything from a bad diaphragm. Did your boat have an automotive fuel pump?

quote:

Originally posted by olroy:
In retrospect, I thank God I stuffed the nozzle into the grounded filler opening before I turned the pump on. If I had turned the pump on first, when that spark jumped, the fumes in the partially-filled tank probably would have been oxygen-rich enough to blow me, the boat, & the marina to smithereens.

Talk about dodging a bullet.

Sounds like a little grounding paranoia might be in order. There are some real scary stories about airliners and fueling. Nowadays, the fueler grounds the plane to the truck to the manifold in the ground before any hose is connected or any valve opened.

No line to flame arrestor. Originals from 1968 prior to CG regs about return lines.

As promised by Freightliner, the part arrived before 10:30am. After picking it up and comparing the 2 items I make the following observations.



1) The electric fuel pump on the new fuel pump/fuel tank sending unit looks even more like the NAPA Fuel Pump.

2) The new part is missing a horizontal support bar between all three pickup and return tubes.

3) The ground wire goes all the way to the top of the new part whereas the older part grounded out at the base of the pump mounting bracket.

The new part did not come with a replacement O-Ring seal or a new ring twist lock tab. These are usually standard items to replace when doing this job. I had to reuse mine.

I welded the tank strap and did manage to get it remounted today. I started up the Barth, it immediately fired to life and ran fine. I have not taken it out on a test drive as the new fuel filler hose from NAPA was kinking when I tried to install it.

The new fill hose is a "thinner wall hose" and is more likely to kink when compared to the original fill hose which also had a wire braid molded inside the rubber hose.

I went to a friends garage and had some exhaust pipe bent. Nightfall seems to be coming earlier so I wasn't able to complete the job... More to report tomorrow.

Bill, I'm so sorry you're going through all this just prior to the GTG. But I know you'll be here, even if you're bunking out with one of us. Just be careful. Gasoline scares the h*** out of me. I have had trouble with every in-tank fuel pump I've ever had on any vehicle. On my 96 Caprice, I drove it many thousands of miles thinking that my fuel gage was not working. When I had the tank dropped to replace the pump/pickup/sending unit assembly, there was a bare hot wire that had been that way for who knows how long. There was no reason why it didn't blow, except God wasn't ready for me to go home.
As I said, be full of care.
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Bill N.Y.:
...I wasn't able to complete the job... More to report tomorrow.

Hopefully I'll be able to take it on a test drive later today.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill N.Y.:
Hopefully I'll be able to take it on a test drive later today.

I have good news... The test drive was a success! I made it to Washington DC

Collectively, we older Barthmobilers have welcomed Bill N Y into the fold - leave on a test drive, end up 175 miles away...

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
leave on a test drive, end up 175 miles away...

That was just the first leg of the trip. 70+ MPH and I added 28 gallons of fuel for that 175 miles... 6.25 mpg.

Total, one way, trip to Washington DC was 288 miles.