quote:

GVWR-18,0000 lbs with towing capacity to 20,000."

18,000 GVWR + 2000 towing = 20,000 max
coach maxed out leaves 2,000 to be towed .... leave the wife and cat at home

GVWR is only the weight ON the chassis, not including weight towed

We tow a 3500 pound car up and down the big hills. Our 5.9 had been boosted up to just under 300hp and the Allison 542 was replace with an Allison 2000. With the 542 the overheat warning light would come on climbing bid hill pulling nothing. The car doesn't now make much difference.

As for the 5.9 there is many a Dodge PU pulling 12-15K trailer. The gross combined weight the PU is 20K.

Finally the brakes on the trailer should be able to stop the trailer. The Barth should not need to handle that chore.

Go to the forums, page 2 of Ads, Documentation, Brochures/Schematics http://barthmobile.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/3731087061 page down and you will see the Breakaway brochure, its 4th from the top.

& I quote "you think you know but you just don't know". Quoted by a friend who was befuddled by the unexpected direction an event in his life went.

Looks like we'll have to change our signature to peethirtysomethingtoo

Wickenburg, huh? We are up the river about 23 miles. On the right.

The choice of gas or diesel involves how many miles you will travel in a year.

The more miles, the more attractive a diesel is.

My friends with earlier 5.9 Cummins are not impressed with their towing power. With the ones fitted to Breakaways, I would consider some mods to do what you want.

A gasser can do it, but some mods will make it better. My gasser was a little weak pulling our 2 1/2 ton 4WD up some grades, like Yarnell Hill, so I stuck in an ht502. Much stronger, now. If I pulled your weight, I would recommend a Gear Vendors, as well. 2nd Overdrive is nifty. The 502 also puts lot of heat stress on the torque converter, so a couple of Long's biggest coolers are recommended.

My own rec would be to buy a Regency or one of the few Breakaways with the bigger engine.

However, a Regency has a longer wheelbase, so that needs to be considered depending where you go. And, Regencies are heavier, so they sink in deeper.

Diesel or gas? (Goes along with other questions like straight weight oils or multivis? high wing or low wing? Ford or Chev?) Depends somewhat on the mission and personal opinions.

I think diesels have the edge in the long haul but there are arguments for the gassers. In the P30 series the 454 has more hp and torque than the 6.2 diesel option. The diesels seem to be around 10+mpg and the gassers are 7-8 but diesel fuel is more expensive.

My preference is strong for the gassers... I won't be driving enough to see an engine rebuild soon, if ever. I do all my own work and I am far more familiar with the V8/carb/auto trans puller setup. (I lust for Bill's 502)

In addition, try finding parts in the boonies. Chev parts are very easy to find in AUTO parts store everywhere, diesel parts are usually truck centers only. (Downside: Chev P30 is not considered a REAL truck by some of the truck centers and they "don't do" light trucks)

Don't get me wrong, those diesel pushers are way cool. I'd go with a tidy 30 footer or so and it would outlive me. My dad's cabin cruiser has a 40 yr old 371 DD with about 3,500 hrs on it. Engine will probably last for 10,000 hrs, another 50-75 yrs if we still have diesel fuel then and somebody keeps the boat afloat when I'm gone!

quote:

Diesel or gas? (Goes along with other questions like straight weight oils or multivis? high wing or low wing? Ford or Chev?) Depends somewhat on the mission and personal opinions.

Generally the torque of a similar sized diesel is far greater than an equivalent gas engine and it runs at far lower RPMs. The nature of gasoline is that of a solvent. When pushed hard the gasoline washes the lubrication off the cylinder walls. Diesel is a lubricant. Gas engines run hotter. The end result is that diesels are the best choice for heavy loads (RVs, big trucks, heavy trailing). The only reason gas motors are put in RVs is that they are far less expensive to build that way. This really is not a Ford/Chevy issue. It's a prime rib versus hamburger issue.

There is nothing wrong with a small gas RV that doesn't get abused, but this thread is about a large Barth pulling a 20' trailer with 3 mules aboard. Sorry, there is no argument for justifying gas in this situation and we shouldn't confuse our new member with the generic arguments.

If gas engines are equal to diesels in the heavy pulling/load category, why are there no semis or tour buses using gas?

The biggest difference between a diesel and a gas is that that diesel never runs part throttle. (There is no throttle!) Since the worst manifold pressure a diesel sees is ambient pressure (no vacuum!) each cylinder brings in higher density air and can therefore burn its fuel more efficiently. Gassers always have manifold vacuum and therefore each cylinder gets lower density air. This, along with the higher heat content of the diesel fuel itself contributes mostly to the better performance of diesels (esp at part throttle) This is why turbo/super chargers work so well in gassers (and will boost diesels when above ambient as well)

The longevity, rpm/torque, and heat issues are the result of mechanical design. (these are all piston engines after all) Longevity: diesels are heavier than corresponding gassers. Bigger bearings, heavier castings, usually lower rpm. Heat: bigger heavier blocks, more cooling flow, bigger radiators. rpm/torque are largely related to bore/stroke ratios, with the long stroke engines (ie diesels) making more torque. The gassers are designed to be lighter, short stroke, faster spinning and higher peak hp with heat and durability issues at high continuous outputs. Longer life, more torque, higher fuel content and efficiency win over initial cost every time for commercial and heavy applications.

You're right this should have been another thread. My main point was that the diesel/gas choice for the 86 Regal was not strongly favoring diesel based on the existing options for that model. Neither is especially suited for heavy trailers, as you correctly point out. Didn't mean to confuse.

I took this conversation to a new thread. Diesel versus gas

Hi, Thanks for all the banter re: Barths and pulling a load. We appreciate hearing what everyones experience with this has been. It has been enlightening. We are not new to pulling, but we are new to Barth and appreciate hearing what engine/tranny combinations people have had best experience with. Basically, we would like to keep the unit short as we like to get into tighter spaces, so probably 30' or so would be our goal. With that said it probably limits us on engine choices. Sounds like Gary has had good luck increasing HP with the 5.9 and the banks conversion ~ how about anybody else. Did they put 8.3 Cummins on smaller length models? Sounds like some of the gassers with the right tranny combo would do it too. I'm handy with a gas engine so that is a consideration.

AFAIK, the shortest coach with the C8.3 is 32' (Regency, Spartan Chassis), ditto for the Cat 3208 T/TA (Regency, Gillig Chassis).

A factor that makes a Regency more desirable is the brakes.

The gassers have vacuum-assist or the flaky Hydroboost. (I say flaky, because the loss of a belt - I've lost 2 - or P/S pump - also 2, results in the loss of both power steering and brake assist). My Breakaway had a GM engine, not a Cummins; with the latter, Breakaways have air over hydraulic, a safer system than Hydroboost, but not as powerful as the all-air on the Regencies.

Rusty is correct, no 30' Breakaways with the larger 8.3L Cummins engine only the 5.9L. And of that not many 230 HP 5.9L versions, most are 190 HP. These were equiped with the 4 speed Allison transmissions 3.73:1 rear diff. People do tow with that combination but I think it would be very marginal ar best.

I have a 30' with a 5.9L 230 HP, Allison 6 speed and 4.1:1 diff.

I do not tow yet but the day is coming and I will rework my power plant before I do. I have looked into putting in the larger Cummins engine but will not do that because of the extra weight. I already have ripple in the body skin just behind the rear wheels on both sides.

I will probably go with the 24 valve version and boost to 800 lb/ft torque.

quote:

Originally posted by MWrench:
I will probably go with the 24 valve version and boost to 800 lb/ft torque.

Geez, you’re going to ruin the asphalt for the rest of us! 800ftlbs of torque on a 30’ ought to do wheelies!

I tow a race car and trailer behind my 35’ with the not so popular 8.2 Detroit Diesel. It’s not too bad as long as you don’t live in a hilly area. The initial acceleration is 1st and 2nd gear is quite good…and then the acceleration is over! It will cruise at 60 on the flat like there is nothing behind it. Toss in a steep hill and you are back to 35 in no time. The regency chassis is very good with the trailer behind it. The brakes are OK as long as you treat them well. Gear down on long downhills and don’t expect it to act like a car when you want to stop

quote:

Originally posted by chrisW:

quote:

Originally posted by MWrench:
I will probably go with the 24 valve version and boost to 800 lb/ft torque.

Geez, you’re going to ruin the asphalt for the rest of us! 800ftlbs of torque on a 30’ ought to do wheelies!

The new 6.7L is currently rated (after the Feb upgrade) to 800 lb/ft @ 350 HP

My Breakaway is a DOG off the line and only after I am in late second gear after torque converter lock up is the acceleration OK. I can cruise all day long at 75 MPH. but out here on the left coast the hill and mountains take a bit more HP than I currently have. Going up the "Grapevine" on I5, I can only do 48 MPH +/-. If I get caught behind a slooow truck, I can not get back up to more than 30-35 MPH