I believe I remember Bill H saying that he never uses a propane heater at night; I doubt he is alone in this, for safety reasons, and my sob heater fan is noisy, intermittent, and not worth the trouble. So I was thinking of using a little floor space heater (plugged in). Is this more safe, more stupid, or more or less reasonable when it gets a little too frosty for she who must be obeyed? tia, stringmann

By "propane heater" are you including your RV furnace? That should be more than safe to run any time of day. I've used small electric heater to supplement the furnace before, cuts down on your propane usage too by using the campground electricity. But I've heard SOME campgrounds have "no space heater" policies, although I haven't run into one yet.

I have a GREAT deal of experience on what can happen using a propane furnace.

When I first got my Breakaway, (was in February) I used the furnace occasionally and not for long just to warm up the inside to do a bit of work before our first trip.

My wife was the first to notice that when running, our eyes seemed to get a little bit irritated, I had a CO detector (aircraft style) and it was not showing anything, neither was the propane detector. I contacted the local fire department and they came over with a piece of equipment and it went off scale on HC and oxides of nitrogen. They said I had a serious leak from burner. I looked into the area with a scope and thought I saw a bit of open flame and decided to replace the furnace. That is when I found out what really was going on.

The original furnace was ~35K BTU and requires 48 square inches of opening for the hot air runs. Mine had only 3 4 inch openings attached with a 2 inch going to the toilet area. That was far short of the required 48 square inches (4" opening = 12 sq"). Further, after removing the couch, I found that the run that goes to the drivers area was pinched completely off because during the assembly of the coach, someone forgot to cut out the material of the couch assembly where the heating run went thru.

Bottom line is I had 1/2 the amount of area needed for the hot air and the plenum was operating way over its temp range and burned thru.

I replaced the furnace with a modern two stage furnace and increased the air openings to the required 48 square inches by adding another run and cleaning up all existing runs, I installed new material for the heating runs as well.

Do I use it? yes I do and will continue to do so, I am however, careful to inspect periodically and insure everything is intact. I also have it tested for leaks every year.

I also use a small 1500 watt electric space heater when on shore power or in some cases using the small generator while charging the batteries.

Anything using propane should be regarded as a potential problem and inspected regularly if used regularly.

quote:

Originally posted by stringmann:
I believe I remember Bill H saying that he never uses a propane heater at night; I doubt he is alone in this, for safety reasons, and my sob heater fan is noisy, intermittent, and not worth the trouble. So I was thinking of using a little floor space heater (plugged in). Is this more safe, more stupid, or more or less reasonable when it gets a little too frosty for she who must be obeyed? tia, stringmann

It is quite reasonable and safe, as long as you keep it away from anything flammable and your wiring and connections are good. We have done it a lot when elec was available. Although, we feel the need for heat when staying up late on cold nights and arising on cold mornings more than for sleeping. As long as I get up first and get the heat going, She Who Must Be Obeyed is content. And the other SWMBO (the cat) has a 12-volt bed heater.

However, you must be careful not to overload any wiring or connection, as most electric heaters draw 1500 watts on their high (or sometimes only) setting. That can strain anything less than a perfect connection. As an example, my house and shop have fairly new, good quality, unabused receptacles, but use of a heat gun makes the plug and receptacle quite warm to the touch. Most RVs are likely to have connections that could use a little love.

If nothing else, I would use the lowest setting possible for sleeping. At work, all of our space heaters were fitted with timers, which had to be wound up every 15 or 30 minutes, to avoid all the disasters from unattended heaters. I don't remember if it was an airport or company rule. Our electric heater has a fan which runs all the time, and a thermostat which turns the selected heat elements on and off. We can select 500, 1000 or 1500 watts. Even the 500 watt setting cycled on and off in several poorly-insulated Fleetwood products.

Barths are well-insulated, and with bubble foil in the windows, it shouldn't take a lot of heat.

We close off our bedroom on winter nights, and usually find the bedroom is 20 degrees warmer than outside and the living room is 10 degrees warmer. I don't think we have camped below the teens at night, though.

An advantage of portable heaters is they are portable. That really counts when you want a shower on a cold morning. I have never had an RV furnace that did a good job in the bathroom on a cold morning.

Now, you went and got me thinking.........For boondocking, has anyone compared the gasoline cost of using, say, a Honda EX650 to power a 500 watt heater versus the propane to heat the RV all night? Since a propane heater or furnace requires an open air passage and electric does not, it would take a real world test, not just lbs per hour, BTU content, dollars per gallon, etc.

An objective test would be complicated, owing to duty cycles, etc. However, it is easier to resupply with gasoline than propane, so that could tilt the equation once the final numbers are in.

Both of my furnaces are removed, so I can't make this my own Science Fair project, but it could be fun for someone.

I will loan my EX650, digital scale, Kill a Watt, and portable propane bottle to anyone willing to participate in this test. Measuring gasoline consumption should be relatively simple.

two hidden costs of RV furnace operation:

1. The battery power consumed must be replaced by running the genset.

2: Since the batteries are discharged more often and deeper, battery replacement becomes more frequent.

We were once next to a couple who ran their Genewreck all night to power their electric heater. My friends and I sat around the campfire discussing mayhem. You know, things like running the exhaust into their trailer. One guy who did not contribute, but listened, was so irritated that he got up really early to leave and dumped his black tank at their doorstep, making their patio a lake. Or perhaps a cesspool. At least we thought it was him. He never did say anything about it.

Sounds like an interesting project.

I use a Honda EU2000 as an aux generator that I can put way away from the Barth and it is a lot better for us inside for noise and vibration. Even thou the propane generator is fairly quiet, the cooling fan is LOUD! The Honda just sips gas even with the 1500 watt heater going. Does it use less total energy then the propane furnace heating the coach? I doubt it, but good for another debate :+)

Unfortunately, most State RV parks and campgrounds prohibit the use of generators of any type after 10 PM.

True, but most also have at least 30 if not 50 amp service so why would you need to run a genny in the first place?

A lot of the State run camp grounds we go to have no hook-ups!

quote:

Originally posted by Danny Z:
True, but most also have at least 30 if not 50 amp service.

Not out here.

Agreed...Tina and I have been to 6 Mi state campgrounds this season and 3 of them had no power at all. Sounds like an interesting proposition though Bill. This entire conversation interests me because I am looking to upgrade my heating system this winter. The heat on my unit comes from a.c. power only..(two rooftop duotherm ac's with the opotional heating element, and two 1500 watt toe space heaters) All of these units work fine but I had better have 50 amp service or I can only run one or two of these four units at a time. Am I rambling? Mabey i should start a separate discussion about this..

I am leaving for northern Vermont tomorrow, after I vote, for a few weeks. My propane tank is full, and I will have 15-amp service as a guest, so no use of heavy electric loads. I will be using both standard heaters set at about 65 day and 45 at night. I also have a ‘Wave 6’ that I use from time to time to make ME feel warm. (It’s like sitting near a fireplace). I will try to note the daily temps and the duty cycles of the heating systems. I will top off onboard propane when I return home for the winter. Would this be something that would be of interest? I do know that I use about 100# tank of propane in about 4 weeks with the ‘Wave 6’ on low 24/7.