I have been doing reaserch for a while and am really confused. I have wanted a Barth since collage (late 60's) I realize the newer technology is sometimes better but not always. My question is really how much trouble you are experiencing with a 15-20 year old coach. I know the body of a barth will last many years and the plastic ones today look bad at 10 years. If it was taken care of is a 1990 barth better than a 2004 SOB ? Things wear out and i know it but wouldn't I be better off restoring a Barth than paying mega bucks for a SOB? Isn't there a place in Springfield that does restorations? Any Idea of the cost of new fabric etc. Also do any Barths have ducted air? I've looked at some sad Barths, but I'm thinking 15-20k could make a dog nice and reliable. What has been your experience?
Thanks

The impact of modern technology on RVs is to make things "cheaper", not "better". While some of that technology is engaged in employing gizmos and gadgets to make the RV more appealing, it's the "sizzle", not the "steak". Many RV owners want faux parquet floors, cultured marble shower tile, and indirect lighting instead of durability, and that's what they get in contemporary motorhomes.

BTW, "ducted air", unless it's roof-mounted, comes with the loss of a basement storage area - a real drawback. Most roof-mounted non-ducted A/Cs work just fine.

The value in a Barth parallels what I used to tell people when I raised Golden Retrievers. "It's pretty hard to screw up a Golden Retriever." And it's pretty hard to terminally screw up a Barth.

Put a new engine in an older SOB, and it's the "ten-dollar horse and a forty-dollar saddle". Put money into a Barth, and it's a long-term investment, because a Barth won't fall apart faster than you can fix it.

I didn't become a Barth fan and owner because of falling into it - I looked at over 50 motorhomes before buying the SOB that preceded the Barth, and another 100 after or so still trying to find one suitable. In that five years of looking I came to the same conclusion that some anonymous pundit pronounced: "90% of everything is crap!" To get an SOB of reasonable quality, one would have to get something in the 38'+ range, and spend at least $150K for a used unit.

The BBL (Barth Bottom Line) is this: Barths were not only well-made but thoughtfully designed. The chasses are plenty durable, and only the P30/32 may need some upgrades for driveability; my 28' Breakaway with its absurdly little wheelbase should be a squirrel on the road, but it tracks likes it's on rails. With full liquids (water and fuel), there's still 1200 lbs. useful load. A close friend of mine bought a $275K 38' upscale coach. With the stock wheels and tires, he had <500 lbs. useful after loading fuel, propane, and water. He had to threaten to sue the manufacturer to get things real. The FMCA magazine recently featured a 32' Class C also with a 500 lb. margin - add two people at 150 lbs. each, and there's 200 lbs. left.

Really, it comes down to this: Do you want the first little pig's House of Straw, or the third little pig's House of Brick?

Chassis', accessories, & appliances are pretty much standard throughout the industry. They go kaput in Barths & stick-and-staple coaches at the same rate, but it is worth something to replace them in Barths because of the quality of the riveted aluminum coach body.

You give up something of modern technology in engines & transmissions in older coaches, regardless of make, but you gain something in ease of maintenance. Older engine technology doesn't require a degree in electronic engineering to keep it running. This helps if you do your own routine maintenance, which anyone with an older coach should expect to do.

Rusty's right on all counts.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Really, it comes down to this: Do you want the first little pig's House of Straw, or the third little pig's House of Brick?

Another Nugget from Rusty! Thanks for making me laugh out loud.

Bill N.Y.

For what we paid for our 1990 Barth we could have bought a 35' plastic 1995 or so Spartan/Cummins with a 230hp 5.9 pusher. The interior cabnetry on all of them we looked at were crap, no Steelcase chairs, no basement heating, no 22.5' wheels and tires or full air ride. I could go on ...
My wife loved the olde English pub look of the solid cherry wood everywhere. I love those Hadleys and how she drives and handles. Built like a tank.
Good luck on your quest. We spent 4 years looking, and viewed at least 15-20 Barths.
Don

My wife's uncle bought a new '94 34' Fleetwood Bounder with the 5.9L 190HP, and paid on year-end sale, around $70,000. My '94 28' Breakaway was $115,000 new.

Uncle's Bounder was in the shop a total of 16 of the first 24 months. And I mean continuously - sometimes two months at a time awaiting parts, or warranty authority, etc. He got so disgusted one time that he told Fleetwood to ship the replacment shower (the old one constantly leaked) to Colorado (he lived in FL at the time) for installation there, as he was tired of waiting on it.

quote:

Originally posted by w&bknocke:
What has been your experience?

We have an 84 Barth 30 footer. We have had TTs 5ers, Class Cs and As. They all got loose on me. Our last was a Southwind. It was only a 27 footer, but was strictly white knuckle on curves or wind. I knew I wanted to beef up the chassis, but couldn't see putting too much money in something that was slowly going to collapse, either from the inevitable dry rot (been there) or just all the staples loosening up. It went down the road like some parallelogram, creaking and wiggling in loose formation. The only times it ever acheived a true box shape was between excursions from a right tilt parallelogram to a left tilt one. And it only had 22000 miles! So we decided to get something that would last forever, at least the coach part. That meant all metal. We had to be at or under 30 feet, as many of the places we go limit your length. That ruled out a lot there. I looked at Airstreams, Revcons, Superiors, GMCs. We were helpless. We had to have a Barth! We found this 30 foot Barth with a tag axle. The tag allows me to play with air bags and allow for different tongue weights or a motorcycle on the back, or both. Barth used the heavy duty P30 chassis with discs in the rear. I may even convert the tag brakes to discs later. It feels a JILLION times better than the Southwind. I have put in a crate HT502, BIG trans and oil coolers, Thorleys, IPD bar, Bilsteins all around, heavier front springs, Air Lifts on the drive axle so far. More improvements to come. I am afraid to add it all up, but whatever it is, I am sure there is no way I could have the quality and durability for that amount of money any other way. I would do it all over again, but changing the engine from underneath was really a job. That 502 was worth it, though. I have an advantage, as I do all my own work, except I farmed out the tranny and carb to a couple of good race shops.

quote:

Originally posted by w&bknocke:
I know the body of a barth will last many years and the plastic ones today look bad at 10 years.

I am a newbie here myself. But I have a theory about why many of the SOB plastic and fiberglass bodies have some variant of the the "Nike Swoosh" for paint jobs. It is that having a straight line would make it more obvious that there are sags and bows in the body. Having a "swoosh" orients the eye away from looking for straight lines. Most Barth units I've seen have straight lines, and if painted with curved lines, it is only for aesthetic reaons, not to camoflague aging of the structure.

Think of seeing a car with body work that is not great. It might look OK without pinstriping, but with pinstriping, the body would be clearly "not straight".

Matt

I had a 1997 25' Rear Bath, Sportscoach built on a P-30 Chassis that was a "gift" from my little brother - watch out for little brothers. It was a basket case that we put a ton of money into to restore and when we were done we kept finding new stuff to repair. With a reliable chevy 454 and a new transmission to increase mileage above 6.5, we tried to get parts and service. Did you know Chevrolet won't work on vehicles over 10 years old? So after chasing all the gemlins I found my 1993 Barth Regency (32'). There is simply no way to compare the SOB's to it. I think comparable coaches might be Newell and Bluebird. It was strange trying to figure out how to run a diesel (300 HP turbo Cat) and all the accessories so I spent 4 months writing a Users Manual so I could figure out what I had and how to operate it. This 14 year old coach required a couple of new bushings on the roll stabilizer bar and a good cleaning. I had a burnt out fluorescent light. Called the company in California and got a repair kit for $16! Needed brake shoes and a few air line couplers - Called Gillig and they had the entire production history for the VIN of the chassis and they provided everything in a few days. The only down item is the loud diesel generator that will wake the dead and keep you out of dry campsites. But that is being remedied - another story. The aluminum doors on the baggage compartments have pin holes that cannot be repaired because of the wood sheeting that is was used in the sandwich. But there are permanent solutions to remove and replace them with heavier panels that won't corrode. Short answer is I have not had near the problems of my friends who bought a Country Coach for 175k and I have no difficulty finding help (that would be here!) or parts. And when I attended my annual Indy 500 and was parked with about 100 other coaches the best compliment was by another owner - "Nicest one in the lot".
Set your budget, ask for help and then don't do any temporary fixes - we bought these to enjoy not to be yard art.
Best wishes.

OK I can't type - It was a 1977 Sportscoach!

Thanks for all the input. I lookes at a 1999 SOB star which was suposed to be a upper quallity coach and the cabinet doors were a different color than the cabinet frames.The frames were vynal wrapped pine not oak. Yuck! I.m holding out for a barth!

For my money, I wanted a vehicle first and a house second. All the bells and whistles on some of the newer coaches sure look good, but if you have a tire blow out I want to live to tell about it.

Barth meets both the vehicle and house needs with excellence on each front.

I never met a motorhome owner who didn't need to fix things regularly. New or old coach, it didn't matter, they always needed something. I rather spend money on a Barth - the return is much better.

They are also the best and most coach for the dollar out there.

Bill G

quote:

Originally posted by Bill G:
I never met a motorhome owner who didn't need to fix things regularly.
Bill G

Yup. I have had RVs since the late sixties, and our Barth seems to need a little less than the others, though. Well, the Cortez stayed together pretty well, too.

Been there, done that. I agree with El Segundo Bill on the frequency of maintenance thing. Once I got ten years of previous owners' deferred maintenance out of the way,(most of it minor stuff) there hasn't been much to do on the Barth.

I've had three stick-and-staple travel trailers that all required constant massage & tweaking, including in one case rebuilding the rotted-out rear 1/3 of the coach. My FWD GMC was pretty good, but I had to rebuild the fuel system from the tanks to the carb. Yards & yards of fuel line, & not a project for after work on Friday. I also had to strip & refinish the cabinetry. The Barth required essentially a touch-up.

RV appliances are RV appliances, & seem to go on the fritz at equal rates no matter what kind of coach they're installed in.