Greetings All!
I just signed up on the site late last night, as I just made an appointment to drive two hours (one way) to go see a Barth for sale.
Here's a copy-and-paste of the listing text:

1989 Barth Regal SE - 33 Foot - $21500
This one is NICE! 47,000 MILES!
460 Ford Gas Engine (Pusher), Allison AT545 (4 Speed) Automatic Transmission,
Oshkosh HD Chassis, Alcoa Polished Aluminum Wheels, New Michelin Tires (6), Onan 6.5KW Generator, Automatic Leveling System, Two 13,500 BTU A/C's, Nice Awnings Over All Windows, "Honeycomb" Shades Throughout Inside, Large Refrig W/Ice Maker, Microwave/Convection Combo, Corian Kitchen Counter Top, Parquet Wood Flooring in Kitchen, Large Bathroom W/Tile floor, and Skylight over Glass Enclosure Shower, Electric Step, Power Roof Vent, AM/FM/CD Player W/4 Speakers. More Options...Too Numerous To List.



Any last-minute advice/comments would be golden, especially since we'll be leaving between 10-11AM Pacific Time today.

Thanks,
Chris

Drive it up a mountain with a toad on a very hot afternoon.

Are you suggesting that there may be overheating issues with this configuration?

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Are you suggesting that there may be overheating issues with this configuration?

No.

I am suggesting that you should check out the possibility. It is an often-discussed concern of gas pushers.

There is no reason that a gas pusher should overheat, other than poor design. Diesel pushers are fine, so gas can be also, with proper engineering. But, a lot of engineering is based on experience. Few motor home manufacturers had a lot of experience with gas pushers, so some of the engineering could have been deficient. I would expect Barth to have done a better job than the others, but experience still counts.

To wit: Gas pusher RVs have been made by FMC, Monaco, Vixen, Winnebago, Ultravan, Foretravel, Barth, Rockwood, Executive, Country Coach, Beaver, Allegro, Holiday Rambler, Vogue, Bluebird, and probably others.

All were dropped. We don't really know why. I can offer my own speculations, such as consumer acceptance, cost, weight issues, low volume, and of course, overheating. My own feeling is that the ones with the radiator up front should not have any overheating issues.

From the 30s to the 50s, Flxible built a lot of busses with the chev six and Buick straight eight engines in back. Those things really worked their engines, and they ran and ran.

Workhorse started a gas pusher line, but I believe it has been dropped since their partnership with Monaco.

Another (minor) consideration with buying one is that thre could be consumer acceptance issues at resale. Correct or not, prospective buyers could be afraid of overheating issues. You will take a bath, anyway, when you sell it, so this may not be a major concern.

Again, a good hill climb will tell the story.

Take lots of pictures and let us know what you found out.

We looked at a 34' gas pusher that was for sale in Quakertown Pa. a few months ago. It looked EXACTLY like this one! And I do mean exactly the same, as in Ford 460/Oshkosh/Allison and the very same exterior paint. It was a side aisle config. and the bathroom took up a lot of space. It was originally fron SC.
There are a number of posts on this site about it. Do a "FIND" in all forums under "gas pusher" and you should find a lot about this really rare Barth.
FWIW the asking price was $13K but it did need some sprucing up and I have no idea of it's mech. shape. We were in the area looking at a really nice Breakaway.
Good luck.
Don
1990 Regency 34' spartan/Cummins

If this is all the same coach, it seems to have changed ownership frequently.

I would attempt to speak with its former owners or owners of similar Barths.

Perhaps they could be persuaded to post here for our own education.

It must be this one. By now you should have seen it. Gaso pushers never really caught on, for some reason, although Workhorse has reintroduced one.

My own personal opinion is that if an RV will see >10K miles/year, diesel's the way to go. 28-33' gaso motorhomes get 6-8 mpg; 28-32' Breakways generally get 10+.

Hello all -
Here's the latest.

My wife and I drove up to Lancaster from our home in Long Beach (CA), made it in just under two hours in light traffic, including a quick pit stop. (Soda, and making room for more soda.) During the trip, the "ext. temp" readout on our Expedition went from a balmy 77F in Long Beach to 97F in Lancaster.

The Barth looked just like the pictures
(I'll post more pix shortly.)

Seems to be in quite reasonable shape for an 18 year old coach. Exterior shiny,tires look supple (forgot to check DOT number), no serious wear inside the coach.
I looked carefully for evidence of water leaks and found none.
Generator starts right up.
Both roof ACs blow cold.
Powered levelers seem to function as designed.
Turned on the fridge, and it started to feel cool in the freezer after about a half hour, on generator power. (Is this about right?)
Stove lights. (With a match???)

The excitement began upon starting the engine. It started right up, but I was standing right next to it at the time, and there was an unexpected metallic rattle. (A loose heat shield somewhere on the exhaust, I thought?)
The owner climbed out and listened. Hadn't heard that sound before, so shut it down.
Tried restarting, and the starter motor spun, but refused to engage the flywheel. (This we could hear.)
The owner quickly unbolted the easily accessible, shiny, one-year-old Pep Boys starter, and lots of broken spring and roller bearing -type parts poured out.
We both looked at the flywheel, which appeared to be undamaged.
While my wife and I went to lunch at the local In-N-Out Burger, the owner got a free new (rebuilt) starter under warranty from Pep Boys, and fished around the flywheel sump with a magnet, collecting more broken parts.
Since this is a dry sump, (essentially just a dust shield) I suspect that any leftover metal filings uncollected by the magnet will not be particularly dangerous. (I hope.)

So, after lunch, we went for a short drive, including some rough pavement and some freeway, up to 78 mph indicated.
I noticed a plate in the engine compartment stating that the 460 is rev limited to 4000 RPM. This surprised me, as the 460 in my '87 F-350 is redlined at 6000 on the stock tach. As it turns out, this is all moot, as the Allison 4-speed shifts at about 3800 RPM even if you stand up on one foot on the accelerator. Apparently designed to not hurt itself, no matter what.
Anyway, it seems to accelerate in a "stately" manner, with no serious "holes" between gears, and to be happy at typical freeway speeds (drive train-wise).

Now, on to suspension impressions....
Upon peering under the front of the coach, I was a little disappointed to discover running gear left over from a Connestoga salvaged from the Donner Party.
Seriously, there’s a solid axle, leaf springs, and shocks that appear original. The steering has a transverse connecting rod and idler arm. Needless to say, in an admittedly stiff Lancaster afternoon cross wind, it requires a bit of attention (read 45 degree adjustments) at freeway speeds, in order to stay pointed straight.
Judging by postings elsewhere on this site, I suspect new Bilstiens may at least help.

Wife was taking mental notes on squeaks and rattles for future abatement.

Items noticed in need of attention:
CB antenna missing. (Does anyone use those museum pieces any more anyway, now that we all have cell phones?)
Backup camera/monitor not demo-ed by seller. (He said he hasn't been able to get it to work.)
Roof looks re-coated with some kind of white sealer. Long enough ago that it is starting to craze. (Crack would be too strong a word. Yet.) No seams evident other than at front and back caps. I’m hoping that this is still a one-piece aluminum roof, as built.
Main Bed in rear bedroom is 72”. I am 73”. (Anybody ever shoehorn a king into one of these?)
The gas struts that are supposed to hold open the overhead storage in the rear bedroom have lost their charge. (Replacement part source, anyone?)
Small, inexpensive TV in rear bedroom needs new fascia/framing to fill old, larger hole in wall.
Bathroom door is warped/tweaked. When closed at center latch, top corner above latch is open at least an inch. Rattles loudly at speed.
With about 10 gallons in the 30 gallon fresh water tank, water pressure is barely adequate except at hand sprayer by toilet, which almost produces an occasional drip.
The is no spare tire or wheel.
The aft of the two swivel chairs opposite the couch is not bolted down. (I can picture this exiting through the front window during a quick pounce on the brakes necessitated by typical LA traffic.)
The wind-up vent over the cockpit area is sun/ozone rotted and disintegrating. It will ned to be replaced completely. (Looks like a generic item.)
The dash air does not get cold. ($1500.00?)
There is one tiny spot of corrosion where one of the basement storage bins is attached to the radiused lower edge of the exterior side wall. there is a hole smaller than 1/8 inch.
Battery isolator in engine compartment only has two wires connected. (One empty terminal.)
Two keyed latches on exterior basement storage doors missing.
Several furnace air flex hoses (I’m guessing that’s what they are?) terminate in midair in the basement with no apparent place they are supposed to connect.
TV in center of overhead above cockpit is missing. (This gaping hole may become a storage cabinet.)

We are discussing the possibility of installing a third front seat for our just-turned-nine year old daughter in the nice big flat spot where pullers have a big engine hump. (Anyone tried this?)

As for the postings regarding possible overheating, the radiator is, unfortunately, in back, but looks significantly larger in both area and depth than the one on my F-350 460. There is a twin electric fan. There may be space for a second similar twin unit, or one large one, if recommended.


The inspection and test-drive over, we agreed on a price, although I still feel it may be a little high, but we were not permitted to complete the transaction, since the seller insisted on providing a state smog inspection certificate. (This is the letter of the law here in CA, but the first used vehicle transaction I have ever heard of where the seller actually complies. Usually the buyer has to deal with it after the fact.)

My wife had to work at 6:30PM in Long Beach, so we beat it out of Lancaster at 4:10PM. After hitting traffic around Pasadena, we arrived in our driveway at 6:28PM. Hurrah for the carpool lane on the 605.
(For those of you familiar with the area, we went 14-5-210-605.)

So, another road trip tomorrow morning.
The plan is to leave home at 8:30AM, (this is like the middle of the night to we two full-time musicians) be at Wells Fargo in Lancaster by 10:30AM, and back on the road with completed paperwork and a new (to us) Barth by 11:30AM.
Owner is hitting the smog certificatoin shop when they open at 9AM.
Wife drives home, I drive Barth directly to 2:30PM Guys & Dolls production meeting in Huntington Beach.
Please hold good thoughts for me and the Barth to start our new relationship by arriving at the meeting without drama. (That’s supposed to be later, on stage.)

Please, please, please do continue this thread by offering any suggestions you may have for a (soon-to-be) new Barth family.

Thanks,
CZD

Here are some pix kindly proveded by the seller:

FWIW, Your couch, chairs, & carpet are identical to mine. From your description, your paint is in better shape. Problems disclosed until now seem slightly less than those reported by many new owners of similar-aged coaches, though I'm sure you will discover more. The mysterious heat ducts terminating in the basement are probably there to keep the basement area from freezing.

Congratulations on joining the fraternity.

Very nice, I didn't know gas pushers existed but I love it! Let me add my welcome to Barth ownership and, "Let the memories begin!" We are only a month into ownership of our "Stagecoach" so we're not too far ahead of you in that department.

quote:

Turned on the fridge, and it started to feel cool in the freezer after about a half hour, on generator power. (Is this about right?)
Stove lights. (With a match???)

Half hour and noticeable cooling is good. Yes, we do light the stoves with a match Actually, a long-nose butane lighter), and you'll get to bleed the LPG system so the reefer will run on gas by waiting for the stove to light (sometimes several minutes).

quote:

Upon peering under the front of the coach, I was a little disappointed to discover running gear left over from a Connestoga salvaged from the Donner Party.
Seriously, there’s a solid axle, leaf springs, and shocks that appear original. The steering has a transverse connecting rod and idler arm.

I prefer steel over air for suspensions. The solid axle is about bulletproof, and pretty much standard on larger RVs and medium trucks.

quote:

Needless to say, in an admittedly stiff Lancaster afternoon cross wind, it requires a bit of attention (read 45 degree adjustments) at freeway speeds, in order to stay pointed straight.

It may be time for new spring bushings and shackles, a Steer-Safe, and radius rod bushings. And those Bilsteins...

quote:

Items noticed in need of attention:
CB antenna missing. (Does anyone use those museum pieces any more anyway, now that we all have cell phones?)

They can be handy to get notice of traffic problems, but mostly the channels are loaded with trucker chit-chat of no importance.

quote:

Items noticed in need of attention:
Roof looks re-coated with some kind of white sealer. Long enough ago that it is starting to craze. (Crack would be too strong a word. Yet.) No seams evident other than at front and back caps. I’m hoping that this is still a one-piece aluminum roof, as built.

Most are one-piece roofs. Recoating is quite simple - a couple of hours to prep, and a couple to coat.

quote:

Main Bed in rear bedroom is 72”. I am 73”. (Anybody ever shoehorn a king into one of these?)

You should be able to get a piece of foam and slide it in at the headboard, and make a small extension of the platform at the foot.

quote:

The gas struts that are supposed to hold open the overhead storage in the rear bedroom have lost their charge. (Replacement part source, anyone?)

The little ones are available at most RV stores. Large ones (real gas struts) are availbale at NAPA.

quote:

With about 10 gallons in the 30 gallon fresh water tank, water pressure is barely adequate except at hand sprayer by toilet, which almost produces an occasional drip.

New water pump - about $70 DIY.

quote:

The is no spare tire or wheel.

Larger RVs rarely have a spare.

quote:

The aft of the two swivel chairs opposite the couch is not bolted down. (I can picture this exiting through the front window during a quick pounce on the brakes necessitated by typical LA traffic.)

This may be a Euro-Lounger, and a feature of a lot of Barths - very comfortable - hard to tell from the photo.

quote:

The wind-up vent over the cockpit area is sun/ozone rotted and disintegrating. It will ned to be replaced completely. (Looks like a generic item.)

The lid won't exactly be generic, but the right one should be easily available.

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The dash air does not get cold. ($1500.00?)

Probably 1/3 of that. The engine A/C compressor is for the 460. The vent system is likely Chrysler. Check to see if the condenser fan runs - there was an intermittent connection on mine.

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Battery isolator in engine compartment only has two wires connected. (One empty terminal.)

This should be tested and reconnected, as the isolator keeps both the chassis and house batteries charged from the alternator. BTW, when hooked up to shore power, the converter does not charge the chassis battery on most coaches.

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Several furnace air flex hoses (I’m guessing that’s what they are?) terminate in midair in the basement with no apparent place they are supposed to connect.

Odd. It's possible the coach had basement ducted air which was removed and replaced with the roof units to give more storage. It's also possible there's no furnace where one's supposed to be...

quote:

As for the postings regarding possible overheating, the radiator is, unfortunately, in back, but looks significantly larger in both area and depth than the one on my F-350 460. There is a twin electric fan. There may be space for a second similar twin unit, or one large one, if recommended.

Is there no engine-driven fan?

"Bathroom door is warped/tweaked. When closed at center latch, top corner above latch is open at least an inch. Rattles loudly at speed."

Think about this before you laugh/scoff. Our bath (not shower) door is "solid wood" with a full length mirror on the hall side - really nice. With the door closed, the "bathroom" was large enough but certainly not roomy; the door had to be opened into the Hall to enter or exit. After a couple of years, we removed it and it has been doing duty as a dressing mirror in a walk-in closet in the "real house". We have never missed it; we've forgotten it existed unless someone remarks on the doorless opening. It may not work for you, but it simplifies our lives. And if/when we sell the coach, the (re-attached) bath door will be one of the finest features.

Several furnace air flex hoses (I’m guessing that’s what they are?) terminate in midair in the basement with no apparent place they are supposed to connect.
Congratulations. You have heated storage compartments, one mark of a quality coach.

The radiator is on the (driver?) side; there wil be no engine-driven fan. Are the fans electric or -possibly- hydraulic (powersteering fluid)?? The air is pulled across the radiator and flows out the open rear grille. BTW, this rear grille gives reallyreallygood ambient air flow over and around the engine; the exact opposite of the problems with front mounted engines.

Thank you, everyone, for all your helpful postings and replies. Although I haven't yet taken the time to write it up for the site, we did, indeed, take the plunge and purchase the '89 Regal that was for sale in Lancaster. Unfortunately, it only got a little past Acton, then violently overheated, including ejecting all its coolant. I tried refilling it, which resulted in massive clouds of white billowing from the exhaust. I interpret this as coolant in the cylinders. Paid $800.00 to get it towed home to Long Beach.

Bill H., I see you are in El Segundo. (As a full time musician, I have worked many times at the Old Town Music Hall.) Any recommended shops for engine work? (Ford 460 pusher)
Thanks,
CZD

Chris, so sorry to hear about your drive-home troubles... I experienced similar when I purchased my SOB, but didn't have to shell out the kind of money you did.

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Paid $800.00 to get it towed home to Long Beach.

This is a good example of the importance of roadside assistance protection. It needs to be more than the standard "$100 or 100 miles" limits like many auto policies have too... nothing is that cheap on a motorhome! I have Progressive insurance with roadside included, and I verified before I purchased the policy that the roadside has NO monetary limits per use.