A question for the long time Barthers. Is there an accurate relationship between the nada web prices available and the actual sales prices for Barths in the current market? Is diesel different than gas? If so, what is your favorite recipe? I'm more than just curious and a little hungry.

Before I bought my Barth a few years ago, I studied prices for quite awhile. Most actual sales I found were taking place around 10% below low NADA. That's what I paid for mine, though I've since spent around $6K cash, & untold man-hours completing maintenance deferred by prior owners, adding improvements, & fixing the stuff that normally goes wrong in a 17 year-old coach that is regularly used.

The bill would have been a lot higher if I weren't a pretty good shade tree mechanic, though my aging body permits less-and-less of that now.

I would accept such a price today, though the coach is in infinitely better condition than when I bought it. It's ready to go. I would leave on a trip of any length right now. Even got a full gas tank.

I've advertised the Barth right now, at low NADA. I've had one inquiry, which wasn't followed up, from my listing on Barthmobile. From RV Trader, I've had a half-dozen calls, 2 Looky-Lous, & one seriously interested person who at last declined. I suspect the market in general is very slow.

Whether my early experience in researching prices is relevant & valid today, I can't say. As always, fair market value is established by agreement between a willing buyer & a willing seller. NADA, or anything else, is merely a guide.

Take three automotive guides, NADA, Kelley Blue Book, & Edmunds - Kelley is always higher, NADA in the middle, & Edmunds much lower than the others. I'm only aware of NADA on RVs, so I don't know about Kelley, or Edmunds if, indeed, they have RV price guides. Because of the difference, used car salesmen used to say take 'em in on NADA, & sell 'em on Kelley.

On the matter of diesel vs. gas, diesels sell for a premium, new or used. As a rule, diesels are more fuel efficient, & smell worse than gas. On the other hand, a Chev 454 in a P-30 chassis can be serviced by your local Wal-Mart, & worked on by any Chevy truck mechanic. Try that with a diesel. Someone on this site opined that the diesel premium is practical only if you average more than 10K miles a year. Most RVs travel less than that. At 59K, my '90 Regal has averaged about 3500 miles per year.

You pays your money, & you makes your choice, but it's always your own decision. As always, you're making an investment for fun, not profit. If you want it, & can afford it, buy it, but don't expect to make money on it unless that's your business.

Our Barth is actively & realistically for sale. If it doesn't go in the next 2 months, we may have one more shot at taking it down South this winter, but personal health is problematic for both of us. It's conceivable that if, at last, we can't use it at all, & I get tired of paying storage, & insurance, & keeping it exercised, it will go to charity. I'm not going to let it sit & rot as so many have.

The "selling" prices are reported by the dealers.
The dealers have a vested interest in keeping prices high. Could the dealers be raising the ante a little to increase their profits?

It gets a little more complicated when that logic is applied to the low, or trade-in prices.

Interestingly, when you have a car totaled, the insurance company is not about to pay you NADA or Kelley prices. They will find the lowest prices in the dismal little papers in dismal little markets and use that as their basis for compensation.

But a lot of sellers have unrealistically high asking prices. They are hurting themselves. When I shopped for our Barth, I had flexible work schedules and free air travel, and still didn't look at a number just because their prices were too high to waste my time, as I had no idea how flexible they were on pricing. Several did finally sell for reasonable prices, but I had no way of knowing that at the time. If I had known they would get reasonable, I would've flown to look at them for sure, and maybe bought one of them, even paying more than it finally sold for. I also had a couple of sellers call me back, accepting my offer, after I had bought ours. They ended up selling them later for less than my offers, even.

There is nothing standard in pricing a Barth today. The prices ar generally much lower that NADA, but vary greatly.

I think 60% of current NADA is a good starter offer if the coach is in good condition. Some might start at 50%.

I bought my Barth at a discount because it is an orphan. I would not expect to sell it for what I paid now even though I have made many improvements and repairs (at least 10K). It is still a 15 year old orphan.

Bill G

Thanks guys, really useful contributions, and greatly appreciated. Its not simple determining a fair value for a 15 to 18 year old MH no longer in production. In addition to making good use of a Barth it helps that you derive some enjoyment from the maintenance. I guess the purchase price is just the down payment, the real cost is the never ending repair and upkeep. Just like yachts in this regard.

So I take it the consensus is that both gas and diesel Barths are selling for about the same percentage under nada at this time in the economic cycle.

I'm surprised olroy's fine machine is still looking for an owner. Improved, maintained, tons of time devoted to make it reliable, that to me would be a wise purchase, if the size and configuration are suitable. That seems to be a good commentary on the current state of the Barth market, or perhaps the total RV market.

Attention!! Thread drift---
Part of my problem is geographical. I've had several calls from Seattle & its suburbs, but you'd think the Olympic peninsula was past the end of the world when it comes to enticing someone out to look.

On the subject of yachts, over the years we owned 4 cruisers from 21' to 43' in length, & every one was in some way a restoration project. The 2 larger ones were wood, & I had more fun restoring them than cruising them.

I had the same problem selling those boats when we lived on Bainbridge Island, a 30 minute ferry ride from Seattle. At least it discouraged the Looky-Lous, but also discouraged what might have been legitimate customers.

You made me check nada for a 90 34' Regency. We paid 16% below low nada for ours last May. After paying the dreaded fed and prov. taxes to get it legal in Canada it went up from that to just below nada retail.
It was still worth it!
Don (Look for us in Az. this winter )

quote:

Originally posted by olroy:
I had the same problem selling those boats when we lived on Bainbridge Island, a 30 minute ferry ride from Seattle. At least it discouraged the Looky-Lous, but also discouraged what might have been legitimate customers.

I think you're right about the looky loos, but I have to believe that a serious buyer would not be deterred by your location. We bought ours before this forum's birth, and before the internet was used by very many sellers, so did a lot of flying and driving and kissed a lot of frogs. Willingly. Heck, you even flew down to El Lay to look at one, didn't you?

I paid about "avg. retail" for mine, but since there are only (AFAIK) 4 of the post-'93 28' Breakaways around, and since this one was in such good condition, it didn't bother me at all. And since it was local, I also saved about $1,000 by not flying to Seattle to look at anotehr '94...

Looks like even Regencys are getting somewhat devalued, or maybe just older. That last one on ebay went off pretty cheaply. For something kinda rare or exceptional there are no rules, you just gotta pay I guess. I saw on nada a listing for a 28 Regal diesel pusher. Is this a misprint or are there some around ? Drifting away now.

Anyone who uses and maintains a forty foot wooden boat has sure got my attention and respect. As a hint of where I'm coming from, I may very well name my Barth "Dulcibella". I suspect olroy may know the answer to my puzzle, just let the lubbers and aviators think about it for awhile.

I've built a couple boats myself, this is Chesapeake Bay country after all. Have spent some quality time with scissors, paint brush, mat, roving, mek peroxide and other gop and goo. L. Francis said "frozen snot", and its one of many reasons I really like the aluminum Barths. Lets see, stars, moon and planets, deserts, oceans, celestial navigation, ships, exploration, industrialization, land yachts, Barths, exploration. There may be some connections here. That is my pitiful attempt to steer back on course.

quote:

Originally posted by izomage:

I may very well name my Barth "Dulcibella". .

I've built a couple boats myself.

If one of them was indeed a Dulcibella, I tip my hat to you. I helped my dad build a lapstrake from scratch, and I learned a lot. Mostly patience.

Re: El Segundo Bill's comment on my trip to El Lay. Indeed I flew down to look at a Barth. It was the floor plan with the breakfast bar just outside the bedroom. It didn't look bad in the pix, but when I saw it in the flesh I knew I dare not bring it home. It used a 6' folding door that crossed the coach at an angle, to close off the bedroom. My B.W. goes to sleep with the chickens, & I'm a night-owl.

On the matter of "frozen snot," I've played with quite a bit of it myself, though I didn't enjoy it. I'm of the school that believes if God had meant there to be fiberglass boats, he would have made fiberglass trees.

OTOH, "A boat is a hole in the water, surrounded by wood*, into which one pours money"

* Or fiberglas

If the hole is trimmed with wood you can bet a hole lot more money and sweat will flow into it. Which reminds me of the often used quote "There's nothing . . . absolutely nothing . . . half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats" from Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows (River Rat to Mole) If we change boats to Barths maybe we won't be accused of thread drift.

Billh can keep his hat on since I have never built a full lapstrake boat. It sure is a wonderful way to build a light and strong structure. I don't think its a terribly difficult construction method, unless you are doing something like an Adirondack guide boat, or maybe a very light Rushton canoe, that's a different story altogether. I did build a 15 ft Rangely Lakes guide boat, cold molded Honduras mahogany.

My little puzzle turns out to be a riddle. Dulcibella is the small yacht owned by Davies in Erskine Childers "The Riddle of the Sands". I think this has become a cult classic among some cruising sailors. A good story for anyone though. I thought the reference would be rather obscure on a rv forum. Nothing is obscure anymore with Google close at hand. Typed in Dulcibella and bang. Anyway, there is a certain cruising, or shall we say traveling philosophy embodied in that tale, which I am simpatico with.

I ignored the reference to "Dulcibella", not wanting to admit to ignorance on any subject, but having done the Google search I don't feel so bad about it. I am, after all, a stinkpotter, not a rag sailer.

As to the sweat factor, I agree with Water Rat, & I'd go further to say there's nothing more satisfying than scarfing in a piece of Honduras to replace a rotted section of cabin top and carving it to perfectly match the original contour. Unless, perhaps, it's turning the key on an engine you built yourself, & having it fire up & run on the first try.

I did my first restoration at age 9 when I made a working coaster wagon out of 2 wrecks from the dump.

I built my only boat at age 10, a kayak framed with the ends of orange crates, stringers made of short pieces of lath scarfed together, & an unbleached muslin skin, the only material actually purchased.

The wagon worked better than the boat, & perhaps that's what turned me on to restoration, rather than construction.