Being in the market(sort of) to buy another Barth, this subject is at the front of my mind. One of the things I now think about is to never buy anything for more than I can easily sell it for. You never know what way things will go and sometimes, a quick sell is required. I've talked to both banks and insurance companies and they both use NADA. With an insurance company, you can insure for more than NADA, an 'agreed upon price', but you'll pay much more for the insurance. We all know the vagaries of NADA, especially for older motor homes, but that's what we have. The 33' Regal I recently tried to buy was priced just a little over NADA, but because of its' odd layout, probably wasn't worth even NADA. I've looked at several before and since that one, and they all are several thousand over NADA. I understand the desire to get some of the money you spend back when you sell something, but my thinking is that people expect a motor home to be in good running condition, with all systems functioning well if NADA numbers are used. Lipstick and mascara--to coin a phrase used my Mike Holmes--really don't make it work any better. They make you feel good, but don't help a bit if you're sitting on the side of the road in summer heat. Comments?

I think it's pretty well established that, for Barths, NADA is of minimal worth. Not only were a few made, but there are only a handful of near-identical coaches. Couple that with only a handful of transactions involving a dealer (where NADA gets its data), the Blue Book is undependable.

My '94 28' Breakaway LE:

http://www.nadaguides.com/RVs/...ay-LE/3002094/Values

shows $89K original price. I have the invoice; it was $117K. NADA shows a 28' front entry, but all 4 28's that year were LEs. NADA shows a roof air at $130; mine is a year old, with a heat pump. And the Satellite dish is 15 mos. old (NADA doesn't even show one). The reefer is 6 years old, a 3-way. Then there's the factory-new engine, uprated transmission, Honda generator, high-capacity oil cooler, and the TV is 22" LED.

The bottom line: IMHO, NADA isn't even a reliable place to start pricing most of the Barths.

In your case, I'd rely more on your knowledge and insight than NADA.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
NADA isn't even a reliable place to start pricing most of the Barths.

Exactly Rusty!

NADA is for dealers not individuals. That is why it is called the National Automotive Dealers Association.

Couldn't agree with you more, Rusty. However, that's not the way the banks and insurance companies work. For those that have to borrow to buy a Barth, the banks won't loan more than NADA. And the insurance companies won't insure for more than 'market value' as determined by NADA. That poses a problem for one who has to borrow money and has to watch their pennies on things like insurance costs. Guess maybe they should rethink ownership in the first place.

Just an FYI on non classic insurance policies like Haggerty Agreed value policies have clauses that say they will pay the lesser value Blue book or the agreed upon price, not the price you insure it for. I looked into trying to get my TVR under State farm with the rest of our vehicles so it could be stacked for underinsured/uninsured and low and behold for that clause in there.

quote:

Originally posted by benebob:
Just an FYI on non classic insurance policies like Haggerty Agreed value policies have clauses that say they will pay the lesser value Blue book or the agreed upon price, not the price you insure it for. I looked into trying to get my TVR under State farm with the rest of our vehicles so it could be stacked for underinsured/uninsured and low and behold for that clause in there.

That's a "Stated Amount" clause. "Agreed Amount" pays the agreed amount for a total loss. If Haggerty claims they offer an "Agreed Amount" policy that's on a stated amount basis, that's fraud. Your TVR could qualify for classic or antique coverage (but not with State Farm) which are normally written on an agreed amount basis; an appraisal is usually required, with periodic updates.

And, yes, I know whereof I speak, having owned an independent insurance agency for 25 years.

quote:

TVR

Since no on has yes spelled it out, what is TVR?...or maybe I messed it on one of the in one of the 89609 messages?

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:

quote:

Originally posted by benebob:
Just an FYI on non classic insurance policies like Haggerty Agreed value policies have clauses that say they will pay the lesser value Blue book or the agreed upon price, not the price you insure it for. I looked into trying to get my TVR under State farm with the rest of our vehicles so it could be stacked for underinsured/uninsured and low and behold for that clause in there.

That's a "Stated Amount" clause. "Agreed Amount" pays the agreed amount for a total loss. If Haggerty claims they offer an "Agreed Amount" policy that's on a stated amount basis, that's fraud. Your TVR could qualify for classic or antique coverage (but not with State Farm) which are normally written on an agreed amount basis; an appraisal is usually required, with periodic updates.

And, yes, I know whereof I speak, having owned an independent insurance agency for 25 years.

So basically you said exactly what I did. Hence why I would never bother with an agreed value policy with a non classic company like State Farm (which as I stated does offer agreed value policies designed for classic cars BUT they will pay the lower of the book value or the agreed price.

Oh and TVR stands for TreVoR. (small British car company active from 1950-2006).

What I'm saying is that "Agreed Amount" and "Stated Amount" are industry-standard terms; I've never heard of the hybrid that SF and Haggerty are flim-flamming.

Not Haggerty, State Farm's agreed value policy pays the lesser of the two. My agent told me that it is designed for "rich people" who own their car outright but don't want to pay the premium for a full payout (ie an Aston with a bb value of $150k that the agreed upon value is $50k). They would pay the lesser. If you went to them and asked for the same policy for a Barth that has a 8k bb value but agreed to 15k as it was the best out there and you knew you couldn't replace it for that they would still only pay 8k to total it.

While the term "stated amount" has been around a long time, it became popular during the 1970's Arab oil embargo; "values" of small cars inflated to stupidly high numbers. To limit the cost of insuring those for physical damage, "stated amount" settlement was incorporated into personal auto policies (PAPs). "Actual cash value" had, until then, been the only option, and is still by far the most common - and only option - in the standard PAP.

You have brought up a very important point: Don't rely on policy "titles", nor on agents' representations - read the policy language.

Is there a "BB" for motor homes? I know how to look up NADA values but not Blue Book. Do dealers have some special book that the general public usually does not have access to?

After all the years and the changes, the coaches vary so much. With such variation and so few actually being sold, the prices are are all over. The price index values are rather low for the "average"old coach.

Bottom line: caveat emptor. Do a thorough inspection. Decide ahead of time what you have to get and what your price limit will be. Keep looking.

My coach is a great example. Book value is pretty low I am sure. I have around 25k into it. What would you pay for it?

"Priceless"

quote:

Originally posted by Jim and Tere:
Is there a "BB" for motor homes? I know how to look up NADA values but not Blue Book. Do dealers have some special book that the general public usually does not have access to?

NADA is the Blue Book.