I stumbled across "Barth" about five years ago, from an ad in RV Trader (hard copy), and was sucked in by the availability of a smaller (30' Breakaway) diesel pusher; that seller was totally squirrely, but the Barth wasn't. One thing led to another (namely, StaRV II).

But I often wonder, if there were no Barths, what would I have bought? And what would other Barthers have bought?

My basic specs were:

Diesel - Cummins or Cat (3208 OK, 31XX preferred)
No slides
Pusher
Lotsa basement storage
Front entry
Diesel or gaso genset

On my list:

Airstream (I was sorely tempted by a 34' diesel conversion)
Beaver
Bluebird (I really liked a 30' diesel in CA, and a spectacular 25' locally; sadly, the latter had no basement storage to speak of)
Furon
Hawkins
Safari (Serengeti, or the rare Trek with a Real Bed)

Definitely NOT on my list:

Any:
Fleetwoods
Winnebagos
Georgie Boys
Tiffens

What about yours?

I grew up watching my dad begin with a 3/4 ton Chevrolet "Camper Special" with a slide-in 9 1/2' Mitchell camper. We'd go camping and my parents would sleep in the camper while my two brothers and sister and I would sleep in what we lovingly referred to as the "house tent." That was something those Army boys would call a "G P Medium."

I don't have any Christmas memories in that tent or camper but I do have many awesome memories of family reunions. The RV seed was born!

Through the years, my dad would trade up and up and up. After the camper was a bigger slide-in, followed by a chassis mount which was the predecessor to the Class C. That was followed by a Class C of some sort but, by then, I was off with the Air Force and never made one trip in anything that followed.

The first big class A was the dreaded Tiffin mentioned by Rusty. My dad must have had a better luck because Tiffin took awesome care of him and treated him like he bought it new from them. He actually bought it from the first owner when it was 11 months old. It was a 37' Allegro Bay by Tiffin. He enjoyed it so much that he bought a new 39' Allegro Bus in 1999.

As I grew older, I began thinking about buying my own RV when I was 39. Because of my father, my needs were:

Diesel Pusher - Cat or Cummins
32-36'
GenSet
Good storage

Make:
Tiffin
Beaver
Blue Bird
Vogue
Foretravel
and, when sleeping, a Prevost.

Not on any list whether awake or otherwise:
Fleetwood
Winnebago
Airstream.

The Airstream made the list when my uncle bought one and, while having very high expectations, he took me on a tour. I came away very disappointed because the quality was horrible compared to my fathers Allegro Bus and my other uncle's Fortravel Grand Villa. Fleetwood and Winnebago's suffered from the same illness to a greater extent. To be fair, the motorhomes I had been exposed to were all from different levels of quality and price so I can't honestly expect the same quality out of a Bounder as you would find in a RV at two to three times (or more) the initial cost of said Bounder.

Somewhere along the line, I read about Barth Custom Coaches. What I liked was the quality of construction and the safety that resulted. A few years ago I was driving along and passed what I believe was a early 90's Breakaway or Regency and I was hooked!

Early this year, I began looking for a Barth while still considering the Tiffin, Vogue and a 1990 Prevost the credit union approved me for. Now I know why so many people file bankruptcy. While searching many ads in rvtrader.com and doing research, I typed Barth into Google and low and behold, there was barthmobile.com. I quickly found myself looking through the forums and about a month later I joined. Less than two months after that, I was an owner of what became "The Stagecoach."

What say you?

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
But I often wonder, if there were no Barths, what would I have bought? And what would other Barthers have bought?


What about yours?

Went through everything. Class C, trailers, fivers, Class As. All were run of the mill quality. The first one, a late 50s Shasta, was the only one that stayed together. The others slowly developed loose staples, broken welds, rot, etc. Still have a camper on the pickup for real rough places, and still tent with the 4WD for the real rough places.

But, this time around, with no Barths, Ida prolly bought a Foretravel 30 ft gasser. I had one promised to me. I knew it very well, having camped with them and worked on it. I wanted an air bag tag axle, though. Better straight line stability and the adjustability for varying hitch or MC rack loads.

Tha repairability and parts availability of a Chevy chassis made it a slam dunk.

It appears most of us looking for the same thing.
Smaller diesel pusher, no slides, quality. I looked at a lot of birds but most were 38' or 40' and I really didn't want the big Detroit and 4 or 5 mpg. I didn't really want a bird forward control but came close to buying a couple of them. Looked at a couple of early safari and that would have probably been my second choice. I still wonder why no manufacturer today builds what we want, thankfully Barth did.
Nick

I'm with El Segundo Bill on the Chevy chassis. I remember a recent thread bout Cummins injector pumps priced from $1400 to $2400. You don't find one of them at NAPA, & you can't get one installed by any old country truck mechanic.

Diesels cost more originally, they're more expensive second-hand, they cost more to maintain in normal RV service, & they smell worse than gassers, but as long as the coach says "Barth," the living area will be equal quality whether gas or diesel.

So a diesel will go 200K miles without a major overhaul. Your average RV goes less than 10K per year. I remember a lot of cautions in these threads about diesels that are allowed to sit for long periods.

Yup. I'm with Bill on this one.

FWIW, the guy that bought my Barth feels the same way. Coincidentally, he bought it to replace a Foretravel gasser, Bill's second choice.

quote:

Originally posted by olroy:
as long as the coach says "Barth," the living area will be equal quality whether gas or diesel.

I dunno...............Some of the Regencies are pretty nice. Maybe not better quality, but more luxury touches, like sliding doors, pull-out pantries, etc. And Regencies have a nicer dash. Actually, even a lot of Regals have a nicer dash than mine.

But, after 8 years of Barth ownership, I have not seen a nicer gasser.

quote:

FWIW, the guy that bought my Barth feels the same way. Coincidentally, he bought it to replace a Foretravel gasser, Bill's second choice.

Roy, I would be interested in any of his comments on Barth vs Foretravel. Was he moving up in size or what? Or was he just another oddball who wanted an air bag tag?

Like most, our camping/rv activities evolved from a tent to a pop-up, then into a Class C, culminating into a Class A. This was followed by a decade and a half hiatus while we attended to mundane things like a business start-up, mortgage, kids, college costs, etc. Once we became empty-nesters, we decided to find, acquire, restore & rebuild a Class A from the vintage/classic years - enjoyable tinkering was to be a goal on par with traveling and actual use.

Our top-of-the-list candidates were the FMC and the GMC from the mid-to-late '70's. Both were cutting edge for their day - I think both have a timeless beauty that exempts them from dating. So we spent a couple years, shopping for the perfectcoach. Fortunately, that time delay allowed me research time too, and I came to realize that both choices involved a quasi-exotic drivetrain/suspension system that most likely exceeded my knowledge, abilites and pocketbook.
Since federal loans guarantees had forced Chrysler to to give up its Dodge RV chassis business during that era, future parts support questions made me reluctant to consider alternatives like Travco, Superior, Apollo, Vogue, Diplomat, ARCO,etc.

For some reason, Barth was not even on my mental radar, even though I had dealt with them and visited the factory in the 70's when they were bidding a shuttle bus contract at my airport. I knew they were top-end, but like so many other orphaned also-rans, I thought they had just disappeared from the RV fleet. The industry-wide move to sticks-n-staples, plastic-n-glue seemed to confirm this......

Then a few years ago, while web surfing, I came across Dave's site here. I read every posting (a lot less of 'em back then!), got enthused, chased down some For Sale listings and finally found the perfectcoach for us....The rest, as they say, is history......

We're now going on four years of rebuilding, restoring, replacing, cussing, kicking and over-spending - and we've enjoyed every minute of it (well, almostevery minute). Our Barth wasn't manufactured flawlessly by any means - I've come across cutouts and assembly methods that were probably accomplished at 4:45pm on a Friday, but the basic foundation has been impressive. I'd rather see staples holding the carpet than holding the walls & the roof together. And the GMC chassis & drivetrain allows me parts support at virtually any local auto store.

At a recent campground stop, I noticed that we were surrounded by over 75 other RV's. Without exception, they were ALL composed of white plastic sides, complete with various Swoopty-Doo vinyl graphics to give them an element of character. Sitting in the center was our little 24' Barth, polished and looking to all the world like an over-sized Sunbeam toaster. It's been a great conversation starter, and we've met some terrific folks because of it.

I doubt if we'll ever be full-timers....probably more like 2/3 timers. When that time comes, we'll give up our little "civilized camper" and move into the cleanest, best-maintained Breakaway we can find. Which means that someone out there right now is using our next motorhome. So until that time comes and we make the deal, please take good care of it!

quote:

Originally posted by Lee:
Like most, our camping/rv activities evolved from a tent to a pop-up, then into a Class C, culminating into a Class A. This was followed by a decade and a half hiatus while we attended to mundane things like a business start-up, mortgage, kids, college costs, etc.

Like most things I do, I jump head first into it. What we have now was our first move into the RV lifestyle. I won't know for awhile longer if this is recommended or not. Watching the way my father moved up and, most normal people, I didn't want to start with a pop-up and work my way up to a what we have and find I was 70 years old. As someone once said here, this is an investment in memories. Actually, no matter what you have, it is a memory maker but I just couldn't see myself doing it the way my dad did.

quote:

Our top-of-the-list candidates were the FMC and the GMC from the mid-to-late '70's. Fortunately, that time delay allowed me research time too, and I came to realize that both choices involved a quasi-exotic drivetrain/suspension system that most likely exceeded my knowledge, abilites and pocketbook.

I had forgotten about the GMC. I fell in love with them years ago and my cousin had five of them at one time. If any of you remember the movie "Stripes" with Bill Murray, my cousin owned the GMC from the movie for awhile. He is now down to one GMC and i tried to buy it from him back in April. I think he was afraid to sell me something that might be a problem. That was my one attempt at buying a cheaper entry into the RV world. A little over a month later, I found Thom and Barb Feit's Regency here at barthmobile.com

quote:

At a recent campground stop, I noticed that we were surrounded by over 75 other RV's. Without exception, they were ALL composed of white plastic sides, complete with various Swoopty-Doo vinyl graphics to give them an element of character. Sitting in the center was our little 24' Barth, polished and looking to all the world like an over-sized Sunbeam toaster. It's been a great conversation starter, and we've met some terrific folks because of it.

I've run into the exact same thing. "Is that your bus over there?" I really doubt anyone would have given it a 2nd look if I was driving my dad's Allegro Bus. I do believe in the Tiffin motto though - "Roughing It Smoothly" and that is exactly what we're doing with "The Stagecoach."

I don't know where we'll go from here but I sure wish Barth was still around. Until the need for slides comes, if ever, we'll probably stay with this coach for quite some time. Full time is too far away to contemplate with our girls only in 5th and 7th grade so, for now, we are working on family memories.

quote:

Originally posted by Lee:
Our top-of-the-list candidates were the FMC and the GMC from the mid-to-late '70's. Both were cutting edge for their day - I think both have a timeless beauty that exempts them from dating. So we spent a couple years, shopping for the perfectcoach. Fortunately, that time delay allowed me research time too, and I came to realize that both choices involved a quasi-exotic drivetrain/suspension system that most likely exceeded my knowledge, abilites and pocketbook.

Yes, I have always admired both of them. My experience with Oldsmobiles attracted me to the GMC, too. However, the wife nixed them on account of poor storage for anything over a weekend. I get to pick the shell and chassis, but Le Chatelaine reigns supreme on matters domestique. In fact, she initially nixed our Barth, even though she was quite enamored of the storage, inside and out. I had to swear on my first-born that I would gut the bedroom and living room and rebuild to her specs. Oh yeah, a new toilet, new ceiling fans, bigger gray tank.......the list goes on.

quote:

Since federal loans guarantees had forced Chrysler to to give up its Dodge RV chassis business during that era, future parts support questions made me reluctant to consider alternatives like Travco, Superior, Apollo, Vogue, Diplomat, ARCO,etc.

I never liked Chrysler brakes. But I admired how well the Superior, in particular, was built. We had a friend with one, and the wife couldn't get past the round window in the door. She said she expected to be offered clam chowder every time she entered.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/rvs/505264934.html

I also considered a Revcon. Never an unhappy owner. They are always all smiles. Handsome and well-built. But the orphan issue weighed heavily. I had been through the Clark thing with a Cortez. Fortunately, every seller of a decent Revcon thought he had a "Collector's Item", as was priced to feed his fantasy (or greed) rather than the market, so I didn't have to face the orphan issue.

"the wife couldn't get past the round window in the door."

Funny that you mentioned that Bill.....For awhile, I had my eye on a Superior (steel skin problems notwithstanding), but the bride nixed it solely because of the "port" in the door.
I also temporarily lusted over an off-the-line condition Vogue, but let it pass for the same reason......Wonder what the designer rationale was way back then...if it was to soften the box look, it sure didn't work, especially with Superior. But to Superior's credit, they built it for real-world use - 20mil Naugahide, piano hinges on everything that moved, Formica-type wall treatments,and everything else worthy of an aircraft carrier motif.....For kid-kamping, the Superior was about as bullet-proof as you can get....Turn my grandkids loose in today's Newell or Prevost conversion and they'll have it looking like inner-city public housing in one weekend!

quote:

Originally posted by Lee:
"the wife couldn't get past the round window in the door."

Funny that you mentioned that Bill.....For awhile, I had my eye on a Superior (steel skin problems notwithstanding), but the bride nixed it solely because of the "port" in the door.

Cosi Fan Tutti

Years before the Barth I made an offer on an FMC to someone who thought it was gold plated, & I did have a GMC that had the common problem of a bed that requires one party to crawl over the other for night-time trips to the bathroom, a standard activity for mature folks of both sexes.

The GMC was a tail-wagger with a severe problem on blacktopped interstates with big-rig ruts. I had to hold it carefully on one edge of the ruts with constant twitches of the steering wheel, or it would dance wildly from side-to-side. I think there's enough flex in the leading & trailing arms of the tandem rear suspension to initiate rear end steering if it gets just a little out of line.

The GMC body is built like a tank, & I've contemplated Superiors, Apollos, & Revcons in past years as well, but never jumped.

My introduction to Barth was a travel trailer in the late '60s as we moved out of the tent camping phase. Problem was it was about triple the price of the trailer I actually bought, an amount well-above my pay grade at the time.

Re: El Segundo Bill's question about my buyer's reason for moving from Foretravel to Barth, the tag axle was part of it, plus a couple extra feet of length, but the big draw for his wife was twin beds instead of the corner double in their Foretravel.

He called me after he arrived home in Boise, & said it was the first coach he ever had in which he felt comfortable steering with one hand and holding a cup of coffee in the other.

I hope he carries through with his plan to restore the coach, he got it cheaply enough. Any remaining problems are cosmetic. I did all the deferred maintenance three previous owners neglected, plus installing awnings all around, but I got too old to finish the job, & wasn't comfortable driving it any more.

The old 'birds are the best I've seen and are affordable. Real tanks and most everything is air operated - even the seats. Rusty, are you thinking of moving on? What's your view of a Barth now that you are a seasoned owner?

The more I see SOBs, the more I like my Breakaway.

Since there're a couple of tight turns in my driveway sandwiched among first-growth live oaks, 30' (Breakway, with the fairly short wheelbase) was the max I could accomodate. The original plan was to eventually get a 32' standard-width Regency, but StaRV II has more basement room. Which is why I ponied up for a new, built-to-spec engine for it, instead of a rebuild of questionable heritage).

I previously mentioned a friend who had an '04 38' National Tradewinds LTC (~$300K); the exhaust flex split, the hot exhaust caught the plastic on fire, and totalled it and the toad. National just shrugged its shoulders...He replaced that with an '07 40' Beaver (~$400K). It's already spent four weeks back at the factory, and the warranty work still isn't done. It's a nice coach, when everything works, which hasn't yet happened.

My ex-wife's uncle bought a brand-new '94 34' Fleetwood Bounder. It spent 18 of its first 24 months in the shop - not just niggling stuff, but VOR.

StaRV II is perfect for Maggie, Casey, and me. Well built, straightforward design (nothing is air-operated except the horn), and no useless geegaws to break. Best of all is that Barth redesigned the '94 28' Breakaway (mine's the prototype) with far more basement storage than the predecessors. And Spartan has been great on supplying the odd part here and there, especially getting a new master cylinder overnighted to me when it crapped out in Baltimore.

Our story is a little different. My Father-in-law was the first to fall for the Barth in '84. He had done the tent to pop-up to travel trailor to Barth journey.

Janet and I started in tents (one for us and one for the kids) and immediately coveted the Barth when we saw it. I attended a Rally in San Antonio, TX with my FIL in '90 and quickly was hooked. Today we have his original coach and are looking for a move up to a little bit larger coach. Currently have kids in college, which consumes any extra cash. However, having gone the class A route, I really do not want to go backwards.

My parents have been traveling in a 5th wheel/ dually pick up combo. They now see the advantages of going class A. Their friends that full time all have class A units.

Currently:
'84 Regal 25' with FrED - Forward Engine Diesel.
Love the milage (12-14 MPG)and hesitate to give up the milage.

Looking forward to
30-35' coach
rear Diesel Cat or Cummins
Allison tranny
rear bed
more storage
TOAD ready