Sometimes I can't help but think that a lot of American manufacturers just don't 'get it'. The auto industry is a good example. Even after 20 years of decreasing market share, the CEO of GM had the arrogance to tell a TV commentator that the reason that GM hadn't built small fuel efficient cars in the past was because Americans didn't want them.
I think most of the Motor home industry in the US is the same. Go to www.swagman.com.au and check out the carbon-fiber/Kelvar bodied, diesel pusher, 15-17 mpg 28' coach that this company will sell in the US this year for $120000. Check out the floor plan. And amazingly, you don't have to buy any slides. In fact, the 28' model doesn't offer them. Like I said, the people running a lot of our companies just don't 'get it'.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim and Tere:
Like I said, the people running a lot of our companies just don't 'get it'.

They get it alright.

They get that they will be rewarded generously for short term number manipulation, and give no thought to the long term, since they will either be moving on soon or have so much stashed away that the future is not a concern.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim and Tere:
Sometimes I can't help but think that a lot of American manufacturers just don't 'get it'. The auto industry is a good example. Even after 20 years of decreasing market share, the CEO of GM had the arrogance to tell a TV commentator that the reason that GM hadn't built small fuel efficient cars in the past was because Americans didn't want them.

Jim, I agree with everything you say. However, I do agree that most Americans don't want a small fuel efficient car. If they did that is what they would buy instead of all the big SUV's and large sedans. And I'm probably as guilty as most. We have a Mazda Tribute as a family auto but I drive a Chevy 2500HD pickup because I pull a 10,000 pound construction trailer. My biggest gripe with the auto industry is that they can build a huge Chevy suburban that will get 18 mpg on the road but can only build a smaller version that gets only marginally better mileage. Our Tribute gets about 24mpg on the road.

I recently have been shopping for a small pickup. Most are mileage rated at the same or less than a full size F150 or Silverado which are both rated at 21 mpg. I'll let the experts figure that one out.

Nick

Just because one has a full size pick up doesn't infer any lack of social conscious. Many people need them. But the large percentage of vehicles purchased are 4-door sedans. Nick, I don't know how to prove it, but I think that the success that Toyota and Honda have had in the US proves that people do want small, fuel efficient, low priced cars. By that, I mean Camrys, Corollas, Accords and Civics. Toyota sells more cars than GM now and that must mean something. The other thing to remember is that the median household income in the US is $48000/year('06). That's before taxes. That means that half of the people in the US make less than $48000 per year. The median income in the US has fallen slightly in the last 8 years. That covers about 150 million people. All they can afford is inexpensive cars and even those keep them in debt up to their neck. The median household income in West Virginia is $33000. I think that Bill's point is on the mark. How can the CEO of Ford accept a $28 million salary in '07 and look at himself in the mirror. It seems that the only thing that many company execs are interested in is how much money they can steal, not whether the product they are making is any good, let alone have any redeeming social value. BTW, the Wall Street bonuses this year will be only 27 billion. Bottom line is that the Japanese built a better mousetrap and Americans bought a ton of them. What will happen in the motor home industry?

Jim, I don't disagree that the Japanese imports (even though half of them are built in America) have taken a huge part of the market I just think that it has been a quality issue more than a fuel mileage issue. I would also point out that if you look at the history of Honda, Toyota, and Nissan in this country, that they kept taking market share by introducing larger and larger models. compare the original Honda civic with the Honda Accord and the original small Toyota and Datsun with what those companies offer today. As you can see my argument goes more to size of vehicle than mileage. Americans drive faster and longer distances than most other countries. I think that influences our decisions.

You get no argument on the management of the companies at all. It would have to increase 100's of percent to just be bad. As far as salaries go... our country has gotten so completely out of whack I don't know if we can ever get it back. Think about athletes.. 20 to 30 million a year to play a game???. I figured out one time after one of the pitchers signed a new contract that he was being paid in excess of $1,000 per pitch. We are approaching the true end of a "middle class" if that term means anything anymore. We have wall street, CEO, and other company officers, and athletes earning millions if not billions. There is not a lot left for the rest of us.

As far as all the Bailouts go, how many people do think realize that the government does not have one red cent that they didn't first take from an American citizen. They should change the language in Washington so that instead of saying the government spent.. to the American people spent.. At least it might get someones attention.

I have watch with interest the coverage of Madoff's ponzie scheme and all the attention it is getting. The Social Security System is the largest ponzie scheme in world history.

Okay so much for my soap box. It's still the greatest place in the world to live.

Nick

quote:

diesel

Just a comment that Thailand which buys mostly Japanese and German cars have diesel engines only in large pick up trucks. VW sold a 1.9L TDI Jetta for a few years (2 I think) and then stopped it, it was very popular so I guess the government wanted it stopped.

However they are going the 15% ethanol route, which is a disaster on all counts (Energy efficiency, CO2, cost and food displacement) except for government incentives for the suppliers (their friends).

There are many behind the doors reasons for our/their fuel policies and auto sizes.

1967 as a sophomore in Newark College of engineering we designed a Battery/Generator/small gas engine/flywheel car that would have gotten more than 100 mpg using lead acid batteries of that time.

It was not rocket science just common sense that by my 3 year I could have refined into a better design so the car guys really should have figured it out (technically) decades ago.

One more point is that new cars claim to have 24-28 mpg, but 10 years ago cars got 24-28 mpg, and then if I remember right my 1953 6cyl ford got about 24 mpg and Henry Fords older cars did even better. So what improvement...... Nada!

The "smart car" has been made heavier, bigger, larger engine, and who knows what else to comply with US standards.. EU/German standards are not good enough,,,,, sh_t.

Anyway tomorrow I fire up the 8.3L monster and bash about for a few weeks using up a lot of energy and loving every mile of it.

Tom

One thing that hasn't been brought up here is the question of whether the Ausi's will build it right and do quality control checking at the factory, or as most American makers, slap it together, get it off the lot, and let the buyer spend the next three years bringing it back in for warrentee repairs?

The web site says that the sides,roof, front and rear caps, are all one piece of molded carbon fiber/Kelvar, eight times stronger than the stuff the SOBs are made of. That would seem to be a good start.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim and Tere:
The web site says that the sides,roof, front and rear caps, are all one piece of molded carbon fiber/Kelvar, eight times stronger than the stuff the SOBs are made of. That would seem to be a good start.

They are getting a good start on advertising hype. Carbon fiber and Kevlar fibers are indeed stronger than fiberglass fibers, but the finished product is not eight times stronger than a good epoxy-fiberglass part. Not even eight times stronger than a polyester-fiberglass part. The strength of CF and kevlar parts also depends on the resin used, and is at its best when the more expensive epoxy resin is used.

There is really nothing wrong with fiberglass parts on RVs. Our Barths have some, for example, with no reported failures.

That said, carbon fiber and kevlar do offer the advantage of lightness, as the parts can be made thinner and still be strong enough. This lightness is useful in boats and aircraft, but might not be cost effective on RVs.

Additionally, the problems with SOBs and their fiberglass has never been a lack of strength, but poor construction techniques, production shortcuts, inadequate adhesives, unskilled labor, etc. Anyone who knows anything about airplanes or boats could go into a Fleetwood factory tomorrow and make a durable RV. But, yes, it would cost more, and the public doesn't wanna pay for quality.

I do admire their use of fewer pieces, though. The fewer the better. Seams are always a problem. I have even had some seam failures on my Barth.

The 28' Swagman specs at 9500 kg (21,000 lbs.); my Breakaway is 16,000 lbs. GVW. Apparently the composites used don't save a whole lot of weight.

The floor plan on the 28' is a bit odd...

FWIW, that's the best-looking >30' Class A I've seen since Barth. Almost makes me wish I were their US distributor.

Sure, you can't tell a book...but, the website sure makes all their models seem very attractive.

Looks nice.

Their photographer really did a good job.

I'm gonna presume that US models will have mirror image floor plans, since we drive on the wrong side of the road.

I wonder if the US models will have the warranty support they have in Oz.

quote:

Originally posted by rickklewis:
FWIW, that's the best-looking >30' Class A I've seen since Barth. Almost makes me wish I were their US distributor.

Couldn't agree more. Hope they are a success here.
Nick