I am shopping for a used quality coach. Had a Georgie Boy years ago and a GMC 4104 custom. Enjoyed the hell out of the bus. I think that older high end coaches have less problems than newer lower priced units. IE $50k for a 1990 Barth or a 2000 Winne. I had narrowed down the search to a Beaver Marquis type 1988-1994 range as I like to finish inside. I also like the Hawkins for style and the newer Alfa for the headroom. The Barth seems to be sort of a lower cost Prevost type and I like the interior style. Foretravel and Holiday Rambler are a little fancy for my taste.

Advice wanted: Beaver vs Barth 50K range which is better? I plan on using the unit 3 months a year to travel and then park it for 9 months and go back to Thailand where I live for now. Advice: I have been told that it would be better to park a gas unit for long times vs a pusher, True or not?

I am 61 now and would expect to keep the unit 10 years before either the RV or My personal systems start to fail. Advice: If I buy a 1990 unit now will it be ok for 10 more years?

Thanks for any help.

Swaddee Krap!

Tom

Welcome to the Forums!

The main charm of the Barth series is that the coach structure has the expected longevity of a Newell or Prevost, all three being made totally of non-deteriorating material. The other charms is that there just aren't any corners cut in the design or construction of the interior, which are of high-quality material, even on my mid-line Breakaway. Like any coach, there are a couple of questionable design decisions in Barths, and many have sparse basement storage, but the designs are sound.

While the Beaver is one of the better-made plastic coaches, that you'll be away 9 months of the year tips the scale to the Barth: Any problems in the integrity of the coach will be cosmetic, where with a plastic coach, serious issues with the structure and covering could develop in that time of absence.

Chassis, drivetrain, and appliance issues would be about the same.

In any event, forget any of the Winnebagoes or Fleetwoods - they're built to price points, and to get 'em onto and off the sales lot.

That said, if I hadn't found my Breakaway, I'd have probably settled for a Beaver, Hawkins, or Foretravel. But it would have been "settling for".

Having been there & done that in 4 travel trailers, 2 van conversions, & 3 class A,s, I'd have to say the Barth is the better choice for the reasons Rusty mentions. And from personal experience as well as watching the chit-chat on this website, I'm inclined to agree that gas units tolerate long disuse better than diesels.

That being said, if you're going to store the unit nine months of the year, the main considerations are weatherizaton & pickling the engine. Barth roofs can leak wherever they are penetrated by such things as air conditioners, vents, refrigerator chimneys, TV antennas, running lights, etc.

Even transmissions & rear axles can be adversely affected by storage. Seals dry out when left unused for long periods. I had to get my differential re-bearinged. The mechanic opined it had gone dry in storage, & the exposed components rusted.

The key to successful storage for long periods is preparation.

If you want to do comparisons, one important aspect is to drive them down the road. I rode in a 2 year old Georgie a while back and at 70 mph it literally scared the heck out of me! The shakes and rattles had me wondering if the body was about to part company with the chassis. The girl from the dealership that was driving,[no. I wasn't looking to buy, just catching a ride home while the Euro was being serviced] said that this was all normal and how most coaches are. When I said my 81 doesn't sound or feel like this at all she just said "Yeah, but you have a Barth". Made me feel pretty good about my old coach! Also, I plan on keeping and using it for at least another ten years. The maintenance to keep it up will be a tiny fraction of the monthly payments on a new stick and staple coach that will be junk in ten years.
Of course, those of us on this site might be a tiny bit biased toward Barths, and aside from the tragic luck of Dick and Bev, most folks go from liking their Barth to loving it as time goes on.

Aside from waving the Barth flag here, riveted or welded metal beats stick and staple every time. I was very practical, and did not start out to buy a Barth, just wanted an all metal coach. I never missed the chance to talk to an owner or a dealer or a seller of a metal coach, even one I didn't want. Aside from quality issues, I considered length, cost, maintainability, floor plan, WAF, etc. It turned out one particular coach, a Barth, suited my needs better than any of the others. So, I bought it, with no emotion or even no preference. The longer I owned it, the more I appreciated its quality and durability. I have even formed preferences on looks, kinda like the guy who thinks his wife is prettier than other women. I know my dog is more handsome than others, too. So.........don't listen to anyone here, they are just fools in love, like me.

quote:

Originally posted by Danny Z:
If you want to do comparisons, one important aspect is to drive them down the road. I rode in a 2 year old Georgie a while back and at 70 mph it literally scared the heck out of me! The shakes and rattles had me wondering if the body was about to part company with the chassis. The girl from the dealership that was driving, said that this was all normal and how most coaches are. When I said my 81 doesn't sound or feel like this at all she just said "Yeah, but you have a Barth".

.

Danny, your thoughts are similar to a long-ago post of mine on that:

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"Buying a Barth is like buying any other classic, be it car, boat, motorcycle, or airplane. I have been though it all. It will be a labor of love, and will cost you dearly. You will never get your money out of it, unless you bought it REALLY cheap.

BUT, and this is a very important consideration, you will have a motor home that you can own and love forever. You will have pride of ownership. Not only will your children be smarter, but your dog will become a pedigree. You will have something unique and timeless. The coach and interior are absolutely FIRST CLASS construction, and will never slowly fall apart like so many others. I have had RVs for over thirty years, and they all became a formation of loose parts going down the road, more or less together. Dry rot, insufficient or loosening staples, delamination, seams coming loose, end caps not mating with the roof anymore, rubber roofs blistering, etc. The subsequent owner of my Southwind even had the #*%!@#*% windshield blow inward onto the dash in high winds. It seems Fleetwood did not think it necessary to use a metal piece where the windshield halves joined. We used to call our last one "the shifting paradigm", which was a vague reference to the fact that it was a moving parallelogram of shifting angles. It achieved the elevated status of a rectangle only for the brief moment when it went from one set of angles to another. The Southwind had 22 000 miles on it when we bought the Barth. The Barth had 73 000 miles, but felt like a NEW coach. Everything was tight, no air leaks, no flexing and squeaking, better brakes, better straight line stability, etc.

Barths were built by skilled AMERICAN craftsman, not unskilled illegals. And, because of the quality construction, you can remodel it, just like a house. Trust me, so many other RVs are of such poor or unconventional construction that remodeling is an invitation to disaster or self destruction, even suicide.

I can only speak for the gas models, but Barths are often built on heavier chassis than most of their counterparts, so weight, safety, and brake issues are not as critical.

As long as you are planning to keep it, spend and work away! It will be a labor of love, and you will be rewarded as long as you own it.

Most of these comments apply to older Barths. Of course, the newer Barth you buy, the more you will spend upfront, and the less you will have to spend on upkeep and restoration."

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Those thoughts were posted in 2002, but on rereading them six years later, I would not change a word.

The whole thread from back then is worth reading:

http://barthmobile.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6141087061/m/...011097061#8011097061

quote:

most folks go from liking their Barth to loving it as time goes on.

And that is why none of us can offer an objective opinion on Barths. We are all smitten.

I bought my Barth, an 85 Regal, from Jon Bourke, just three years ago. It hadn't been driven anywhere for over a year. Jon did the normal maintenance to get it ready, including a new fuel filler hose for the main tank, and off I went from Prescott, Arizona to Charlotte, NC. Not one problem. Even got 11+ mpg (which no one believes). What have I done? New tires, replaced a filter in the carb, new alternator, new brake lines-master cylinder-pads-rotors, new gear vendors over/under drive, and tore off the electric step on a log next to the driveway one dark and windy morning. I paid $15000 for it and would pay that much again for one that is in good condition. The interior? Like new, just a step back to the 80's when things where made a little better. It sits on a Chevy P32 chasis with a normally aspirated 454, Thorley headers and Nology hot wires. And this chasis was made when GM knew how to build things. For 50K you can get an amazing Barth and I wouldn't trade it for anything other than a Prevost or maybe an older Bluebird.

BTW, I once bought a Calista Class C, in a fit of depression from not having a motor home for more than a week. It had been sitting in a barn for a year, started but not driven, once a month. Other than the dry rot in the roof, the only problem it had was quiting on the interstate from North Carolina to Tennessee(stopped up catylitic converter). That is, until the rear end started making lots of noise. Yes, those gears, or a least the part that is not in gear lube, will rust. Cost a thosand to fix it so I could sell it. Serves me right for not getting a Barth.

Your original post doesn't indicate the number of miles per year and length of individual trips/vacations. If you plan on some long journeys you will not regret the extra outlay for a diesel pusher, whether Barth or sob.
We just returned from a 4 month snowbird to Arizona from Niagara Falls and after 4 or 5 seven or eight hour days behind the wheel having the engine under the bed and over 30 feet behind you, a rear diesel proves it's worth. Quiet. Real nice to be able to listen quietly to a book on tape as the miles role by.
Also, we bought a coach that had done more sitting than moving over the last few years, but it seems to have had no affect on the running gear. There are always some glitches with an older coach though, you just have to deal with them as they come along. The biggest issue right now is the rapidly escalating price of fuel, not something to do with whatever motorhome you drive.
We love our Barth!
Don and Patty

Thanks a lot for taking the time to comment. What was said rings true with me. My GMC was great to drive vs the GeorgieBoy. The turning radius of the GMC was a bit too long, it was a 35 foot but was difficult to get into some places. Anyone on this site have experience on the different turning radius of units. I know that for some they have huge overhangs to give a short wheelbase for mobility but it destroys the ride and has great back end swing.

I remember that a Prevost had a small turning radius vs the length with more wheel turn in the steering gear.

Regarding Storage: I kept units in Michigan both outside and in a pole barn, dealing with freezing and water. Then in Port Orchard washington where I had to deal with damp conditions and mould and mildew. I would try and store the unit in the desert, either western Washington or farther south.

My plan is to take it out for 3 or 4 months, then park it and go back to Thailand. So I can park it near anyplace with an airport. I would just need to remember where I left it the next year.

So a dry/covered spot would be great. I guess I could get such a storage spot for $100-$200/month? Does anybody have such a storage place?

Not a lot of Barths for sale at this time, but a lot of Beavers. Prices seems to be dropping faster than my 401K is dropping right now. Is it fuel costs, or some other deal?

Last, pardon the long post, I was looking at a camping club like Thousand Trails, considering I am going to use the rig 3-4 months steady and bash about the USA visiting people and places, would anyone have a recommendation on a club to join?

Thanks again.

Tom

Fuel costs seem to be the lead issue with the precipitous drop in motorhome prices, especially larger coaches. Beavers seem to be among the better SOB (Some Other Brand). To illustrate, a friend of mine just bought a '04 Newmar Mountainaire '41. A month ago, he looked at an almost identical coach, and the owner wouldn't budge below $200K; this one he bought for $150K...

However, I think, as has been previously mentioned, you'd be best served by a gaso coach. The problem with that is that most are built to a price point (meaning cheap construction). Of the gassers, my conversations with owners seems to indicate the Damon lines are to be preferred.

http://www.campingworld.com/rvsales/clearance/index.cfm?src=ROTF

I think some part of the drop has to be due to the credit problems in the US. Look at some of this, price is dropped $130K on some units!

If the buyer was independantly wealthy, fuel costs probably wouldn't be a major factor at this point.

hmmm....
Matt

Have you considered looking for a co-owner? For 50K you could find a really modern Barth or Prevost, etc. and then it would be used regularly and storage would not be a problem. If you return from Thailand in the summer someone from the North might have completed their snow bird winter trips and not be interested in using it then. There is one site on the web that time shares high end coaches, a lot like fractional ownership of aircraft. If it is going to sit any coach is going to have problems.

Tom,
I went on the search a year ago after selling my MCI bus which was a project that was never going to end. I found a low mileage, 1995, American Flyer diesel pusher for $30K which looked in excellent shape....by the pictures posted anyway. I spoke with the owner who had developed a great "story" about the coach and his own history. Downright charming!
Shortly before I got on the plane to fly down and get it, Mr. Charming wanted me to view a few extra pictures; one which showed something not seen in the other angles. The entire driver's side was delaminating, or more correctly, the steel framing was rusting to the point of popping the fiberglass skin out at every rib. When I questioned Mr. Charming, he stated this was just "telegraphy", nothing to worry about. I canceled my flight!
Weeks later I bought my Barth for more than twice the price of the Flyer and I consider it a bargain in value and lack of frustration.
I'm not sure why a diesel would store worse than a gas. Both have treatments for the fuel and you should always fill the tank to the top to stop condensation from occurring. Diesels can grow algae if untreated, but gas evaporates at a much more rapid rate. Again, untreated. Gas engines have more electronics in the way of distributors, spark plugs, etc. to get corroded. I think it's a toss up as long as properly stored.
Don't forget to treat for rodents and pests. They can do more damage in storage than anything else. I've seen raccoons tear the guts out of a truck interior, bees/wasps plug vents, and rodents take out entire wiring harnesses. I'd want to park on pavement or indoors - in a dry climate. Mothballs, bait, pepper, covers for exhaust/intake are all good ideas. Mice love air cleaners for some reason.
Good luck,
Corey

Tom,
As if my previous post wasn't long enough...
If you get a pusher with air suspension, I suggest buying a cheap little air compressor which can be set up to keep your suspension inflated. It might be just superstition, but I don't like storing my rigs with the air bags collapsed.
Corey