Hey Gang,

It's been awhile. Katrina and all that has had me bowed up. I am happy to report that my Barthmobile came through the hurricane without a scratch. In fact, the Barth was a lifesaver with its genset and A/C, since we were without power and water for 2 weeks.

Now, to the Topic at hand. I am building a new RV Park and would appreciate your ideas and direction on a few details.

I'm having the design done by a professional engineering firm with an in-house landscape architect. The plans and specs should be out for bids within 3 mos and I estimate 2 months of construction, shooting for a late spring Grand Opening.

While they're working on the construction drawings, I'm working on the business plan and have a couple of questions:

1. Could any of you suggest the best software program for RV Park management?
2. I also need the name of the best RV Park website designer/builder.
3. Any ideas on the best hardware to provide park-wide wireless Internet?

My primary emphasis to the designers was that I wanted max density without crowding, leaving plenty of green space between pads, and of course, easy in/out.

Any ideas or pointing in the right direction, appreciated. The name of the park will be DOGWOOD HILLS.

Anyone heard from SOB Smith in Huntsville, lately?

THX
Don

I can't answer 1. or 2., but wireless LAN (Local Area Network) Internet presents a few challenges. I prefer Linksys, Netgear, or D-Link components. Propogation is the major issue, as it is essentially line-of-sight. This will require repeaters (a/k/a "range extenders") at several locations, since you want to keep as much greenery as possible. Obviously, placing the host router in a central spot will reduce the headaches.

At the risk of engaging in "Geek-Speak", most traveling computers are laptops. Many have relatively small antennas, and have limited range (some, however, run the antenna around the screen, and these are very effective in low-signal areas). This means a lot of repeaters.

Note that Barth people are going to be out of luck with a laptop's own wireless card, because the metal skin will stop the signal. I use an external (USB) wireless adaptor with my Dell laptop, so I can get the antenna near a window, because even the fiberglass attenuates the signal to nothing.

Just in summary, you'll need a wireless router (supporting 802.11 b and g), a host PC (Not essential to run the network, but a useful tool for configuring the router - old, cheap, and slow will work fine, and with most routers, doesn't need to be on all the time - and if you have a laptop, it can serve as the need to hook directly to the router is infrequent), and several repeaters (which themselves can be wireless if they're line-of-sight with the router - they can also be wired with Cat-5e or-6 networking cable if the distance is less than 100 M). Note that I've not encountered any weatherproof repeaters, so plan on nonmetallic enclosures, with 120V supply handy.

IMHO, you may be best off having someone do this for you, although it's a relatively simple job, with placement and weather protection of the repeaters the most critical, and configuration of the network a close second.

If you want to try it yourself, I'd recommend CDW as the most knowledgeable, and NewEgg and mWave as having the best selection and competitive prices.

One final point (and I mean this kindly, being old and retired myself): Many dedicated travellers are older folks, who have a computer for entertainment, surfing the web, and staying touch with friends and family via e-mail or BlOGs. They tend not to be very computer literate. Very few will have firewalls, anti-spyware, effective anti-virus, or have taken other defensive measures for being online. Make sure your rental agreement holds you harmless for anything that gets onto their computers via your network. You'll be able to provide some protection, but the final responsibility is with the end user. Except for those I build or maintain, less than 10% of PCs I service have adequate security/defensive measures deployed.

[This message has been edited by Rusty (edited November 29, 2005).]

dogill,

About 18 months ago I hooked up with a company the specializes in RV wirless Internet. I spent quite a while checking out companies like Tengo, Boingo etc. who do this kind of work. I settled on WiFi RV as a company to work with because of their professionalism and dedication to deliver a functional product with real customer satisfaction. I met with the company CEO and after talking with him, I believe they have the right attitude. They will do a good job getting a fully functional system up and running with support that will keep it running. If you're interested I'll have someone contact you. Email me at home.

Bill G

Thanks rusty,

Installation of this is over my pay grade and would have to be farmed out. You made a darn good point about PC security that hadn't crossed my mind. I realize that an engineer would prolly have to look at the site in order to price equip for this project. But, let me ask this since I was under the impression that wireless Internet was a necessary amenity these days in a top notch park; Is it really that important? I see many of my salesmen friends with laptops using cellular Internet connections, and then there are also those with satellite Internet service. I guess the bottomline question would be; Do most RV'ers expect Wireless Internet in a modern Park these days?

"Do most RV'ers expect Wireless Internet in a modern Park these days?"
Answer: NO. However: 18-24 months from now, on opening day, the answer will be a resounding "YES!".
A low-tech thought: Curve your streets so that pads are offset from each other - a camper isn't directly side-by-side with his neighbors, but is placed farther ahead (or behind) his neighbor. This only works if you have some space between (behind) each row, of course. Think about it. And trim the cotton-pickin' trees!!!

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"You are what you drive" - Clint Eastwood

[This message has been edited by Gunner (edited November 29, 2005).]

As one of those old guys who believes computers work by black magic, but use 'em anyway, I have a dumb question for Rusty.

If the Barth's aluminum skin impedes transmission, how come I had no problems connecting with Wi-Fi on my 4-year old iBook with airport card while traveling last winter?

Don,

You have gotten some good feedback here on the internet question and I'm not sure if all RV'ers expect wi-fi access, although more and more will in time. One thing i'm sure about, that you did not mention is TV, everyone expects to have this available. How do you plan to address this. If you have a cable tv plant you could incorporate a high speed data path over the cable. Not sure how it would compare in cost to the wi-fi but might be worth exploring.

Good Devils Advocate's guys,

You're hitting on the questions that I have to get ironed out, soon.

I agree wi-fi will be more important in the near future. And yimmitspring brought up the good question of TV and the possibility of providing a TV connection which might include Internet connection capability.

The TV question - I have 3 choices, ie: 1. provide none (my Barth's antenna picks up all the regular affiliates just fine). 2. Comcast Cable is within a quarter mile of my site and I'm sure they would supply for a price but would prolly have to intstall an Amp boost station. They can provide a Comcast DSL capability. 3. Then, there is the local phone service (Bellsouth) which can also configure DSL in the package. This begs another question though; With everyone using cell phones these days, I'm thinking landline will be obsolete, soon. 4. I'm pretty sure that Direct TV would prolly offer a setup which would take care of TV and Internet.
I'm just hoping to keep the project in budget without sacrificing amenities.

And Gunner; Yes, the pads will be staggered and the trees trimmed to 20 ft. I have stayed in some so called "Hign end" parks, that had all the ambiance of a Wal-Mart parking lot. You didn't have to worry about getting your tires dirty or scratching your rig, but ooh, what a turn off they were, and scorching hot in the summer.

My trees are the suvivors of Katrina and somewhat special, now. I have many Dogwoods, Hollys, and various Oaks.

I sure would like to settle the TV/Internet connection with one stone, but with folks having so many different types of hardware, its the big brain teaser for me right now.

Please, keep the ideas and questions coming.

Thanks,
Don


[This message has been edited by dogill (edited November 30, 2005).]

Most parks I've visited recently have TV cable service included. More and more offer WiFi, some free, some with a charge. Destination parks often have land-line phone service at campsites, but
I've not noticed it in transient parks.

if you're in an area with a strong cellular presence, land-line phone service would probably be superfluous, except of course for your office, and at least one pay phone.

I suggest you cost out the installation of TV cable service, including equipment to make data services available if residents pay their own service provider. Furnish basic TV cable free.

Also, cost out WiFi. As noted, I found it available free in a couple places, and with a charge in others. I had to subscribe to a service provider that charged me by the minute, even if the service was available in the park.

There's so much change and competition in all these fields it's hard to keep up.

TV cable is nearly a must. Other services are competitive ploys that come at some cost of capital investment and operating expense. If the guy across the street has this stuff, you better have it too.

If you succeed well enough to generate competition, you better be ready to meet the competition's services. If you're entering a competitive environment, you better be as good or better as the guys that are already there.

It's all about making your place more attractive than the next guy, whether it is your location, your facilities, or the services you provide.

Generally speaking, you're better off investing heavily in plant at the outset, rather than thinking of upgrading later upgrade later.

I was in a condo park that had been built 30 years ago with marginal 30A service. When everyone started upgrading to 50A, we were faced with total replacement of the electrical system for 459 lots.
Bids ran about a millon dollars plus or minus. It cost less to do it piecemeal with a lot of volunteer labor, but took about 5 years.

That approach wouldn't work in a rental park. Buy the best you can at the olutset.



[This message has been edited by olroy (edited November 30, 2005).]

"Please, keep the ideas and questions coming"
Since you invited EVERYONE to help design your new Park:
1) Consider unisex/family showers that open directly to the outside of the building with coin operated (timed) water in the showers. In a few years water will be VERY expensive, even if it doesn't appear to be now. Frustration is waiting for a shower to become available while it is obvious the opposing gender's showers are vacant. When a family showers together it frees up others and prevents Junior from overstaying and/or leaving the hot water running.


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"You are what you drive" - Clint Eastwood

quote:

Originally posted by olroy:
As one of those old guys who believes computers work by black magic, but use 'em anyway, I have a dumb question for Rusty.

If the Barth's aluminum skin impedes transmission, how come I had no problems connecting with Wi-Fi on my 4-year old iBook with airport card while traveling last winter?

The Airport card is, IIRC, one of the more powerful and sensitive ones out there (with a very good antenna). If you were near a window, that would have helped immensely.

Or, it was Black Magic....

The best utility arrangement I,ve seen was a single post with Elect., phone and cable on one side and water on the other. On top of the post was a small neon light that was a nigth light/ blinked warning if power line was plugged in to wrong 20/30/0r 50 amp. The standard cable was part of space rental and the main gate was closed at 8 or 9:00 PM, but each space had a card to open gate at anytime if you were coming in late driving your toad. Bushes were planted on bend of roads so no headlights into units at night. Nice little white line to follow, on back in spaces so you could back in on the first try. Beside gameroom/party room several small 12X12 roofed pads in various spots to use in the rain . JKB

A lot of RV folks have fairly small holding tanks, so shower/toilet facilities are very important to those who like to stay in rv parks. The parks I've stayed in that I liked the most are those with clean, well lighted toilet/shower facilities and they are kept clean all through the day. And even in Ms. make sure there are enough of them and the walk to and from is well lighted and easy on people with shower shoes on.

All points and advice well taken gentlemen. While surfing for RV WiFi intel, I ran across this article. Tell me what you think.
http://www.rversonline.org/QAWireless.html

I don't want my park to charge extra for Internet service, rather I want it to be a magnet amenity. I know when I was traveling and staying in motels, I always booked with those that provided free wireless.

For some reason I'm not getting this link to open for you? I'm working on it.

****well, I guess they want folks to take the long route; http://www.rversonline.org
Then, click on info for park owners and scroll to wireless article. Sorry about this, but I really need you guys to read this. Seems there are several paths and some of them none of us would want to take.

[This message has been edited by dogill (edited November 30, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by dogill (edited November 30, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by dogill (edited November 30, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by dogill (edited November 30, 2005).]

I tried the URL about WiFi, & got the message, "the server cannot be found.." Did you swap/drop a letter or a digit when you posted, or is the problem on my end?

The points made about showers & restroom facilities are good. I had forgotten how important they are since we got a Barth with adequate facilities.

The one about unisex showers accessible from outside is particularly good. I've run into them in Canadian marinas, & wondered why I don't see more of them here.

[This message has been edited by olroy (edited December 01, 2005).]