Hello all,

I have recently started looking for my first RV (finally made enough rank) and I must admit I'm pretty blown away by the Barth's. They seem to just last forever, and still look good! Anyways, I have found a 1987 26' Regal going for $12.5k. It still looks outstanding both inside and out. It has a 6.2L GM Detriot Diesel. I have been perusing your forums here and there's hardly a mention of the 6.2L. I take that as a bad sign but I just thought I'd ask for sure. I have been told that this Barth is on it's second 6.2L so that is not a good sign either. But I will not be pulling any other vehicle, just the 26' unit itself. I'm just looking to load it up with fluids, camping gear, and go about 60-70mph and cruise. Anyways, if you all have any experience or words of warning please pass them my way.

Also, I don't have my heart set on THAT ONE. If any of you know where I can find a well presented diesel model that might have an appropriate engine (assuming this one is not up to snuff) please pass it along. It's my "coming home" present from my deployment, I don't want to buy something that is going to (literally) blow up in my face. Thanks for lending me your expertise!

I don't have the 6.2L (there's another with the 6.2L on the forums, but I don't remember who offhand).

Anyway, the 6.2L NA (called a "Detroit Diesel", but that was just marketing hype) was rated at 155 HP. In that coach, it's probably connected to a TH400 with a diesel torque converter. This is the engine that originally powered the military Hummer in addition to Chevy/GM pickups and Suburbans.

While not perfect, if treated well, it's fairly durable. On the straight-and-level, 70 mph cruise should be no problem, but expect some grunting in the mountains.

I would guess fuel economy to be in the 11-12 mpg range as opposed to the ~8 mpg for the 7.4L gassers.

Parts are readily available. Although not design weaknesses, the engine is subject to timing chain stretching, and the crankshaft damper needs to be inspected (replacement is about $200 in parts). Glow plugs (a simple job to replace) should be recent versions, as older ones are subject to failure - and with the tip expanding, making them difficult to remove.

I highly recommend joining The Diesel Page, which speciallizes in the 6.2/6.5L family (with some Duramax participation). Great bunch of knowledgeable folks on there!

The 6.2 is going to get you better fuel economy in exchange for power of the the 7.4L (454) gasser. Both are built on the P3x chassie. Parts are easy to find and much more affordable than other chassies for the most part.
Choice of power trains has a lot to do with your use of your coach. Are you planning on long trips or just weekend outings. Is this coach to be used as a flat lander or a west coast mountain driver.
Although I Hope to 1 day grow up to a Cummings or Cat. The B.B.gasser I have works great for the weekend MX races and camping trips that we use it for.

Doorman

Although there are fans of every type of power-plant out there, my personal opinion is the GM 6.2 and the Cat 3208 are 1) overly problematic in RV applications and 2) prone to catastrophic failure due to design compromises.

Given the choice (which you wisely now have by asking first), I would highly recommend the 5.9 or 8.3 Cummins as alternatives. This advice should serve you well in both maintenance and resale down the road.

Although Barth didn't have many, the Detroit Diesel 2 strokes are also quickly becoming known as a motor to avoid due to the parts availability and, again, poor applications in an RV setting. A Detroit, GM, or CAT 3208 might last for years in a boat or commercial bus as they were designed with massive cooling capabilities. All too often, RVs cheated cooling in favor of precious space. Owners well beyond warranty will pay the price for these design trade offs.

The two aforementioned Cummins have both proven to take a beating with great success. Equally importantly, they are designed for easy rebuild when things do go bad. Some of the other mentioned motors (engines actually) are nicknamed "throw away" motors because they often cannot be rebuilt. Heat is almost always the culprit.

While we're on the subject of durability, if you haven't owned a diesel before (especially in an RV), they can be a very different experience to drive. A very common complaint is lack of power. Often this leads to exotic add-ons to gain more usable power. This too can affect durability because more power = more fuel per RPM = more ......you guessed it......heat!

First: THANK YOU for your service to our country!
Second: THAT ONE looks like a good value.
You do not have an opportunity to make a choice of engine in THAT ONE as the original owner did. While it is not a well-regarded engine, it is not a miserable engine either. Inversely, the well-regarded Cummins 5.9L in our 30' is supposed to be durable and easy to both maintain and rebuild. Even so, our coach is on its third engine. That is to say: the Det 6.2 ought to give you good service if you treat it well; ANY engine can and will have catastrophic failure if you neglect it (and the gauges sending you messages from it ;^)
Aside from the chassis and engine, THAT ONE is immensely better for you than some flimsy SOB (meaning 'some other brand', newby)

Wow, three 5.9 engines Mogan! How many miles? What caused the failures?

That engine has served many Barth owners well and countless Dodge truck owners. Was there a contributing factor (like plugged radiator) that kept repeating the issue? Or, are you saying three engines meaning one engine rebuilt three times that might have carried the same bad part with it?

That is to say: ...ANY engine can and will....
Despite the current mileage of maybe 175K, this Breakaway's engine ought not have even been rebuilt, let alone replaced.
I think Dr. Yale had the original engine go out while traveling Alaska. My guess is that the combustion intake and/or the radiator got clogged from going down miles and miles of gravel road. For whatever reason, the first complete engine replacement was performed in Alaska. At that time, Yales had a snorkel and precipitator added so as to get combustion air from roof top level, rather than from right behind the left rear duals. The latter seems like a particularly dirty source of air.
The second complete engine (Cummins Recon) replacement was performed at Cummins Rocky Mountain only about three years ago. The $17K expense seems to have been caused by a cooling system failure -- broken belt, I think. Dr. Yale lost power, pulled over and found the coolant recovery tank melted and hanging by overflow hose along with solder bead melted out of radiator -- a somewhat overheated engine? Perhaps.

The second engine disaster, if not both, could probably have been prevented by watching gauges as much as scenery. I was told that the instrument panel idiot lamp was connected to a different sender from the analog temp gauge, ie. FAA redundancy (right, Steve?). They certainly should be.
An upside of the present engine is that is has the later style P7100 pump, which enables the engine to be easily tweaked to considerable more than 190hp (contingent on injector volume, boost, exhuast volume, etc.)

That kind of thing is the only reason to not want a pusher setup. Unless the operator is vigilant and the gauges/sensors are right, the first sign of disaster is often too late.

Conversely one of the few reasons to want the puller with the gasser in the doghouse up front you get sounds and smells to help warn of problems and maybe better cooling. The rest of the time it's in the way, noisy and sometimes drafty.

As for the 6.2 just be careful with it and it should be OK. Watch those temps!

quote:

Originally posted by Mogan David: The $17K expense seems to have been caused by a cooling system failure -- broken belt, I think. Dr. Yale lost power, pulled over and found the coolant recovery tank melted and hanging by overflow hose along with solder bead melted out of radiator -- a somewhat overheated engine? Perhaps.

The second engine disaster, if not both, could probably have been prevented by watching gauges as much as scenery. I was told that the instrument panel idiot lamp was connected to a different sender from the analog temp gauge, ie. FAA redundancy (right, Steve?). They certainly should be.

Mogan, If he lost power then the engine was already toast. I saw this comment before But find it hard to believe that the radiator solder could have been melted by the steam that would be created by an over heated engine. I personally think that the engine was so badly damaged after the loss of the belt, hence the loss of the fan, loss of the water pump, loss of coolant probably was an instant result, from there the head probably warped severely and caused the head gasket to fail. Once that happened, combustion gasses could get into the now vacant coolant system and melt some solder. Radiator solder melts at 360 degrees F (soft solder)Water can not be brought to that temperature unless it is at extreme pressure, which would not be allowed by the components of the cooling system, The rubber hoses would have been blown off with those kinds of pressures needed.

On the 5.9L the temp gauge sender and the over temp switch sender (that drives the idiot light) are one unit. The root cause of the engine failure certainly was a belt failure, followed by either a malfunctioning idiot light/temp gauge or both but also likely the inattention to a signal.

Pusher or puller, Diesel or gas, failure of the main fan belt, continued running, and lack of attention, will cause catastrophic engine failure.

Just a side note, many of the bigger diesels (my old Barth 8.3 and my now DD S60 have hydraulic fans. No belts except A/C and alternator.

Steve does make a point on older units or safety systems that are tampered with, but most modern RVs have a number of fail safe systems to indicate and overheat situation or simply shut down the engine.

Even thou the fan is hydraulically powered the belt still runs the water pump. (not sure about you DD but for sure on the Cummins). Loosing the belt would still have catastrophic results if the engine was not shut down immediately.

quote:

If he lost power then the engine was already toast.
** of course **
I saw this comment before But find it hard to believe that the radiator solder could have been melted by the steam that would be created by an over heated engine.

** I was also incredulous. But, that is what the work order says (albeit does not say 'steam')**

There are some relatively cheap aftermarket mods that increase cooling and durability. The dual-thermostat/HO coolant pump kit runs about $300. The upgraded fan clutch is around $250 (IIRC). I think the DSG cam gear drive kit will work (about $700), as will the silicone fluid crankshaft dampener ($450).

IMHO, the most useful add-on is the dual-stat mod, as both the 6.2L and 6.5L had heat issues on the rear cylinders, although it rarely caused actual problems in the 6.2. Even with the stock pump and single 'stat, cooling wasn't a chronic problem.

I agree that the OEM 6.2L should NOT have any uprating stuff added except for better air induction and a freer exhaust. That said, in its stock form, it's relatively durable and reliable with reasonable care.

Stonecutter, I hope that, despite the topic drift, you found some worthwhile feedback here.

Make an offer on THAT ONE (after driving it and performing a pre-purchase inspection as outlined elsewhere on this site)

My advice is to pass on the GM and look for a Cummins. Don't find out the hard way why so many dislike that particular diesel.