Our Barth buddy Carl Flack of Cookeville, TN sends me voluminous amounts of generally very cool stuff. I call it "Flack Spam" this is indeed one of the best ever.



At the bottom it says;

Pearl Harbor survivor of Houston James of Dallas embraced Marine Staff Sgt. Mark Graunke Jr. during a Veterans Day commemoration in Dallas yesterday. Graunke lost a hand, a leg and an eye when he defused a bomb in Iraq last year.

[This message has been edited by davebowers (edited February 22, 2005).]

I couldn't get the picture to open on my Mac, but the narrative tells a story.

The survival rate in Iraq far exceeds the rate in previous wars, but blast injuries from mines, roadside bombs, car bombs, etc., coupled with the efficacy of body armor, has created a greater proportion of amputees, seriously damaged extremities, facial, and head wounds. These wounded will have a uniquely difficult problem returning to any semblance of normal life.

Sort of makes you wonder what you've done for your country lately. While watching the super bowl ad where the airport passengers stood up and applauded when the soldiers were getting off the plane, a good friend who served in Vietnam, said, "They didn't applaud for us when we came home". The next day, I did.
Jim

Over the years as things have happened in the world and reached a point where people are saying we should send in the troops to kick some ass i have always been hesitant to agree, after seeing firsthand the price we pay. It seems that the ones that are most vocal are never the ones to go and the ones that have to go have the least say in the matter. Sometimes i think we are too quick to get involved and many don't realize the price that is paid in broken lives and bodies. Over the years i have donated to an organization called paralyzed veterns of america. If you go to www.forties.net/disabledvets.html they are listed there along with several other groups that help vets. After the troops come home from wherever we send them we tend to forget them until we want them again and the injured disappear from our sight.....but they are there and have to contend for the rest of their lives with their injuries. I know that Lee Greenwood's song "Proud the be an American" is very popular, but to me a much better song is Billy Ray Cyrus's song "Some gave all". "Freedom isn't Free"

That's a wonderful photo! Very touching. As for the VietNam vets -- I'm an incurable CARE package sender and sent many to southeast Asia as well as to Iraq this time around.

For you WWII fans, there a great website dedicated to the 384th Bomb Group stationed at Grafton-Underwood in England. The Eighth Army was based there, flew B-17's to drop bombs on Germany. My dad was there as a medic/ambulance driver. Website is www.384thBG.iwarp.com if you want to surf.
I've sent photos of the WWII Memorial Dedication last May and hope Carol can post them soon.

Best to all,
Bev.

It is interesting to note how these young men are being sent to war by men who strenuously avoided military service.

There's a commercial on the radio offering some product to help you increase your vocabulary, and it starts out "Sad but it's true".

I think the biggest "Sad but it's true" part of history is that virtually every single great humanitarian advancement since the beginning of time, has been accomplished by war. Whether it was the beginning of the worlds great religions, the end of slavery, the celebration of freedom and liberty for countless millions. This has all been accomplish by war. "Sad but true". Some point at pacifistic leaders like Gandhi, but even then thousands died before India was free of British domination.

Moms and Dads have mourned the loss of sons in war for centuries, and war survivors have borne their scars the same.

The pride we feel as American, however, is well founded. We have gone to war primarily to free others, and after WWII we were the only country which didn't take one square inch of land except for that which we used to bury our dead.

We can debate till eternity why men have found war as the primary way to settle differences, even in this enlightened era. I think that those of us who are believers in a higher power will have something to ask the big guy when we get there.

Bill what you say about many of our nations leaders having not served is true. I think that if our leaders had been people who have experienced war face to face. We may have not made the hard decisions that we are thankful today were made to maintain our freedom. However, even saying that, one may wonder what would have been the result if we entered WWII in 1939 rather than 5 years later. Would we have saved 6 million Jews, or 20 million Russians?

What about Rwanda, Cambodia and so many others. What if we acted sooner than later, how many lives would be saved. That is why I personally so stronly support the present direction taken by our president. Proaction is always superior to reaction.

"Sad but it is true"

[This message has been edited by davebowers (edited February 23, 2005).]

I agree with Bill H.and shadowman it is a shame!Some gave all,but it all way the midclass and the poor,some of the rich has served with "Honor" some don't!How much more of this "FREEDOM" can IRAQIS stand!

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Jay&Shelby 95 Barth Regency 34ft. 8.3 Cummins 300 hp.
Spartan K2 MM.

[This message has been edited by bubbiebarth2 (edited February 23, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by bubbiebarth2 (edited February 23, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by bubbiebarth2 (edited February 24, 2005).]

Dave, since you brought up WWII, Pat Buchanan posited that if we had let Russia and Germany either weaken or destroy each other, it would have cost fewer American lives to clean up the mess afterward.

We had our hands full in the Pacific, and but for a fluke of fortune at Midway, it would have been a whole lot worse.

I was astounded at the statistics quoted at the WWII Memorial Dedication in May. Over 400,000 Americans died during WWII. Not to mention the millions -- MILLIONS -- in Europe and the Pacific theatre.

During that War they were not drafted for only one year of service -- they were in "for the duration." My dad left for service in the summer of 1942; returned home at the end of 1945, over 3 years. He had 2 brothers and 4 brothers-in-law, not to mention several cousins, in the service at the same time. Some came home, some didn't. One was severely wounded at Normandy; another is buried in an American cemetery in Brittany, France. Two more brothers served in Korea; two nephews in VietNam. Every one was proud of their service to their country.

Bill, I think that when ever anyone involves themselves there is always the chance that things could go haywire. However, I don't think there was much a chance if at all that Japan was a serious threat to the US. Germany was much more of a threat but they were not much of one. Some U-boats cruised up and down the eastern seaboard and caused great damage to allied shipping. However, this threat was mostly history by 1943. The Battle of Midway was in 1942. If the Battle of Midway hadn't have happened then a similar occurrence would have happened sooner or later. Japan was never a threat to the American west coast so the plan was to maintain until the German war was over. And as far as planners were concerned the European war was over in early 1942 when the U-boat scare was for the most part over, (54 U-boats were destroyed in February alone 1942). What am I doing writing a book here.

Bottom line is this. In the 70's when 10s of thousands were dying in Basra, I attended a debate where one side said. "Don't feed them, if they have less than a 1000 calories a day they can't breed and have babys and that is good". The other side said, "that may be true, but we are moral people, we feed the people".

This is America, and even those who hate us depend on us. America will continue to flourish as long as we are moral people and make the hard decisions to do what is right. Not what is easy but what is right... When we change that we will have no future..

Dave, I was a high school kid during WWII, and already interested in history. One cannot say, based on the facts, that Japan was not a threat. She did knock the crap out of us, and all the colonial powers, throughout the Pacific in the early days. In the end, she bit off more than she could chew, but Adm., Yamamoto did, as he predicted, run wild for the first six months, or so. A lot of Americans and others died then, and many others were enslaved. As Bill noted, we were lucky at Midway. It could have gone the other way, in which case, Japanese expansion would have continued.

Of course, if you're a conspiracy theorist who believes that FDR manipulated us into the war to achieve his own mysterious ends, you don't want to be confused by facts. But Japan, and Germany, both, were factually more of a threat by an order of magnitude, than was Saddam Hussein, and the whole world of Islam, until we started killing them by hundreds and thousands as "collateral damage," to our bombs, proving, as far as they're concerned, that the zealots are right about our evil nature.

You've said you believe we were right to invade Iraq, but shouldn't have feared Japan and Germany. I disagree.

In retrospect, WWII was a battle between the forces of freedom and the forces of tyranny. Freedom won.

In today's conflict, I see a battle between two religious ideologies, each certain of its moral correctness. Unfortunately, our inward-looking leadership went hunting bear with a switch, and, like Bre'r Rabbit in the old Uncle Remus stories, our President has grabbed a tar baby he can't get rid of. Meantime, our armed forces are being bled white, as eventually our economy will be as well.

I hope we're on God's side in this matter, but I don't have the moral certainty of our correctness that you have today, or that I had when the free world was battling tyranny in WWII.

[This message has been edited by olroy (edited February 23, 2005).]

Olroy, I hope you know the great respect I have for you and your opinions. However, what I was speaking of was the continental US. Neither Germany nor Japan had even the tiniest of chances of invading the US and causing the kind of damage that Militant Islam already has done. Just today they announced that there are 1181 bodies from 9-11 that will never be identified.

I strongly believe that in war there are no major battles that are won "accidental". If you read the accurate account of Midway http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq81-1.htm there was nothing "lucky" about it. We had better code breakers, we had better planes and equipment, better carrier defense and more than anything better commanders. Just like most things American we were creative, innovative and flexible in the way we fought the war. Japan and Germany in the end never had a chance. Islamic terrorists have a chance. They are here in our country as we speak. They are not being supported by Afghanistan, Iraq, Libia, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia (as much as before) and I feel soon the Palestinians will fall in line as well as Syria and Iran eventually. Many for one reason or the other find it difficult to support this president and the direction the country is in. I am at a lost as to why. But mark my word, in future years the results of the last 4 years and from here forward will make all of the difference in future world peace.



[This message has been edited by davebowers (edited February 23, 2005).]

Dave, I can tell from your posts that you have put a lot of thought into this. I wish you and I could sit down over a beer and have a discussion about why so many of us do not support this president. I will try to touch on one of the reasons, but I am not as good a writer as you so it may not be as compelling an argument as yours.

Who is our real enemy, Saudi Arabia or Iraq? It was not Iraqi people or money that attacked us. Bush is an oil man, Saudi is an oil country, we need oil, Can't bite the hand that feeds and bombs us now can we. So lets attack Iraq. Put some logic to that.

You might say that Iraq needed cleaning up and I would agree, but not this way, a lot of us that have been there, done that believe that we are just taking half measures and if we are not willing to do the hard things we should not get involved.

I could go on for hours over that beer, but believe me there are many many reasons not to like this president.

I truly hope some good comes of this war. I am in close contact with the people fighting it, and they are losing faith in it very fast. Soon we will have to go to the draft or back off.

As for the future, you could be right, but you could also be wrong and our actions could create more enemies than we can deal with.

Terry
USAF 1970-1991
USMC 1967-1970

Let's stick to Barth-related items on the Barthmobile website.

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"You are what you drive" - Clint Eastwood