Hello all,
I posted in the wrong place (http://barthmobile.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3731087061/m/8171009061) and was hoping for some of the great feedback from the members of this forum.

I am thinking about purchasing a 1997 Barth Monarch 38 feet long. Owner says it has 24,000 miles and is asking $42,000 for it. From chatting with Corey I take it that the price is a bit overpriced being that his 34’ Monarch sold in 2010 for $31,000 on E-bay and it was is in much better shape.

I am thinking of offering $26,000 as a starting point and I don’t think I should go over $28,000 because of the body work damage up front and the mechanical problems I found just from looking underneath. I have not had access to the inside yet to see what problems are in there. I am guessing that all the repairs would be about $4000 -$6000 to fix the body and the mechanics if I pay a RV repair shop to do it.

I am new to the Barth following and I am impressed with what I have read about the Barth in these forums. I also followed along on Tom Loughney journeys and all the issues he encountered with is 1998 Barth purchase. He has come a long way on fixing stuff on the Barth and I find myself in his same shoes when he started looking for one back in 2007.

Makes me wonder if I should take the plunge into the RV world but I also remember my father having random issues with is old Fleetwood Pace Arrow. So I guess problems with RV’s are about par for course. I also read up on Corey’s 97’ 34’ footer posts from way back. I learned a heck of a lot of info from the posts from him and many others.

I am part of a slightly younger generation that grew up with electronic cars and trucks so all these mechanical repairs that are actually DYI is great to know! I never had the chance to learn this stuff growing up and I am amazed by the knowledge of the folks on this forum. I am mechanically inclined so I believe I can do the work on the Barth. I used to work on my 69’ Chevy p/u 24 years ago without any issues.

I uploaded pictures of the 97' Monarch that is 37' (listed as 38’) feet long that I am looking at the link below. Unfortunately the current owner hit something on the right front A-pillar, there is bondo and a rivet is missing on the A-pillar where the bono crack is. I labeled the picts. I am wondering if you all think I should just walk away from this one?

http://photobucket.com/1997_Barth_Monarch_38

There are a few mechanical issues I noticed.

1) The radiator fan is leaking hydraulic fluid. Wonder how much that costs to fix and if it is a DYI job?
2)Dipstick tube seal is leaking from block. (not sure if this is a DYI job either)
3)Looks like what is a diesel generator is leaking oil from the pan seal... might be a 7500 Onan?
4)Basement looks like is has some bad rust due to bad seals on the basement doors, I am guessing as the cause.
5) Possible water leak under the passenger side window just to left of entrance door. Interior white panel has wrinkled.
6)Wondering if front end was in an accident? The rails the generator sits on look like they where cut off really rough.
7) Left front driving light recess has a bunch of bondo inside.
8)Access door to generator has a crack all along the left side of it.
9)The panel above the generator access door looks to be coming detached from the fiberglass mounting area. Is this a major issue…? Is it a difficult fix?
10) Entrance door window has moisture inside it.
11) Steering box is leaking red fluid
12) Only has basement A/C unit... not sure that would be enough to cool the inside very efficiently or well?
13) Since the generator looks like it has the original oil filter I am thinking it probably was never serviced?

I haven't even been able to access the inside yet either! Hope there is better news in there.

With all this I am wondering if I should just pass on this one? I have no idea who to contact or who could fix the A-pillar issue/passenger mirror issue?

Good news is that the tires seem to be newish.. made in 2008 and 2009... and the fuel filter looks like it may have been changed at one point so that should mean the oil should have been changed at least once in the 24,000 miles it has on it. I am hoping they changed the oil every 6000 miles or at least twice a year even if they didn’t drive it, drained the radiator every two years, changed the coolant filter at 12,000 miles and changed the tranny main filter at 5000 miles as well. I'll hopefully know once I contact the seller

I was surprised that there are so many leaks with such relatively low miles? Sorry for the long post.. I tried to break it up… I have a lot of questions.

Thank you in advance!

CJ "a.k.a - The other Corey"

... I forgot to add IF the owner did not follow the maintenance schedule, which I am thinking he did not due to the state of the leaks, how would that affect the life of the C8.3 engine, tranny and generator? Other than having all the fluids analysed by Blackstone Laboratories, is there any rule of thumb about this stuff?

Thanks!

CJ

Well... I started calling around to find out how much it would cost to get the parts for the mitre box leak fixed in the steering, the hydraulic leak in the radiator fan and to get a seal or new dip stick tube for the engine. I didn't get anything other than "we have to order parts for a Spartan chassis" at www.campingworldofatlanta.com and as for the work on the engine I was told to get parts to call a Cummins distributor in Gainesville, GA where then then said I needed to call the OEM to get the parts until I said to the parts guy that Barth company no longer exists. He said he would need the engine serial number then to help me out but of course I don't have that yet.

I am a little suprised at how hard it is to get parts. Is this normal for every Barth owner?

quote:

uploaded pictures of the 97' Monarch that is 37' (listed as 38’) feet long that I am looking at the link below. Unfortunately the current owner hit something on the right front A-pillar, there is bondo and a rivet is missing on the A-pillar where the bono crack is. I labeled the picts. I am wondering if you all think I should just walk away from this one?

http://photobucket.com/1997_Barth_Monarch_38

There are a few mechanical issues I noticed.

1) The radiator fan is leaking hydraulic fluid. Wonder how much that costs to fix and if it is a DYI job?
2)Dipstick tube seal is leaking from block. (not sure if this is a DYI job either)
3)Looks like what is a diesel generator is leaking oil from the pan seal... might be a 7500 Onan?
4)Basement looks like is has some bad rust due to bad seals on the basement doors, I am guessing as the cause.
5) Possible water leak under the passenger side window just to left of entrance door. Interior white panel has wrinkled.
6)Wondering if front end was in an accident? The rails the generator sits on look like they where cut off really rough.
7) Left front driving light recess has a bunch of bondo inside.
8)Access door to generator has a crack all along the left side of it.
9)The panel above the generator access door looks to be coming detached from the fiberglass mounting area. Is this a major issue…? Is it a difficult fix?
10) Entrance door window has moisture inside it.
11) Steering box is leaking red fluid
12) Only has basement A/C unit... not sure that would be enough to cool the inside very efficiently or well?
13) Since the generator looks like it has the original oil filter I am thinking it probably was never serviced?

He wants HOW MUCH? I would run not walk away. IMHO

quote:

Originally posted by Corco:

I am thinking about purchasing a 1997 Barth Monarch 38 feet long.
CJ "a.k.a - The other Corey"

no, no, no, no, NO

This undoubtedly has way more issues than even what you have seen, and you have seen plenty. There must have been collision damage front and rear. The forward-mounted mirror must have struck something. So, that corner should be rebuilt. As young as this coach is, it seems to have had a hard life.
I think you'd be way better off starting with the wide body in IL.
http://barthmobile.com/eve/for...333998277#9333998277
Might be lots of fixin to do on that also. But, you could probably shell out less than $20K to get it.

ps
getting Cummins or Spartan parts is often no big deal. Tech Suppt at both is good. too bad you (and the coach) are not closer to me. My local shop, CTR, has been very good about disclosing and evaluating chassis and engine problems. At the Spartan plant in central Michigan, they also do complete chassis inspections for a nominal amount.

However, don't you have enough stress and anxiety in your life already? or R U just a glutton for punishment ;^)

quote:

Originally posted by Corco:
I am a little suprised at how hard it is to get parts. Is this normal for every Barth owner?

As far as the engine and Allison transmission on my Regency, once I had the serial numbers, year of mfg., etc. parts have been fairly easy to come by. Many other items on the coach have also been easy. That said, some of the other items, especially body part, are not as easy. Getting the right glow plugs for my generator engine was a very daunting task.

I kept my opinion to myself until some others responded. I would never try to disuade anyone from buying a Barth. Just not THIS Barth.

I don't know anything about this particular Barth. All I know, is I bought a Royale which had sat and was undriven for 7 years. I basically had to completely go through it spending somewhere between 10-12K and doing most of the work myself. That's brutal reality. If you think you can spend $4000, then in reality, figure at least $15,000 maybe $20,000 with it being a diesel and the high cost of parts and repair.

The guy selling the coach is smoking dope with his asking price....thats a price from the year 2000. I would feel more comfortable spending around $15,000 with the intent of putting in $15,000 to $20,000.

My gut instinct looking at the pictures is it needs a LOT OF WORK...although it would be a nice coach when you finish.

David,

"I think you'd be way better off starting with the wide body in IL.
http://barthmobile.com/eve/for...333998277#9333998277
Might be lots of fixin to do on that also. But, you could probably shell out less than $20K to get it."

My gut was telling me that "I must be crazy for thinking on taking on a problem child like this 1997" but it is the first "late model" I have seen locally and I liked the exterior design, the C8.3L engine and the 6 speed Allison. I also wanted to "save" it from this bad owner. BUT you all are absolutly right... I should "run away" with my limited resources.

I did just see the post for the 1992 Barth Regency - 32' diesel pusher for $21,000 today BUT I am also conserned about buying it and then having all sorts of basket case problems because it was sitting for a while, and not being able to get it back to Georgia. Although they did not say how long, but if it needs new tires I imagine it has been over 8 years. It is intriguing and the interior is nice shape. I like the wood type and design.

I am not familuar with the CAT 3116 Diesel and did they use an Allison 4 speed tranny on the 1992 Regency? Does the 4 speed tranny work like the Allison 3060? Do they have a retarder or a pacbrake?

I have so much to learn... every Barth is different.


My goal is to get an Aluminum motor coach because they are much safer than the fiberglass ones. The post "Moonbeam-Express" did with the picture of the BlueBird Wanderlodge flipped on its side and then pulled back on it's wheels and able to drive off sold me on all aluminum.

I also want a motor coach so I can take my expanding family to places like Disney's Fort Wilderness Resort and just see how great America is, for years to come. My wife is pregnant with our first child and I want to get things going now so when "junior" is old enough we can go on some much needed vacation with the dogs.

My wife grew up in Detroit and has tons of family up there in Michigan.

I grew up not to far way from "Bill N.Y." 20 min south of him in a smal town called Hopewell Jct., N.Y., south of Poughkeepsie. If we finaly get a Barth I will definately stop by Spartan for an inspection.

- CJ

The collision damage would worry me the most. Did I see some sort of piece of foam stuck above the right front windshield? Is this Barth located near you?

Jim and Tere,

Yup.. just down the road a few miles. I was the one who took the pictures to see what you all thought?

- CJ

Assuming 'the authorities' will allow you to work on it at your home, do you have the time? This might be a very big project.

I would not be disuaded by some fiberglass damage. We build fiberglass cars and that stuff is easy to work, paint and patch. Any Corvette or boat shop can cut out the broken panels, replace the steel or aluminum posts (if necessary) and make it as good as new. It is easier to work the glass than any formed or curved metal. The plastic bumpers are just as easy. There are sheets of the ABS or other material available and it patches well. And don't forget that under most of our aluminum coaches is steel and the galvanic corrosion just eats it away. There is no patch that solves that problem, it requires disassembly and a new build up of aluminum before replacing the exterior sheeting. I would have the drive train inspected by Cummins and get a professional assessment. As for the '92 I will share this. Our coach runs and drives well but on our last trip we saw a small pooling of diesel fuel on the intake of the Cat 3208T. Upon our return we took it in and after a careful inspection the shop said it appeared to be a gasket leak in the injector pump. About an 8 hr job and a few new gaskets. Upon teardown they found almost all the seals disintegrating from age and said we had to rebuild the pump, re-time the injection and replace fluids. $3400 later it is perfect, again, for a while. We plan once a year big maintenance expenses. But we love the Barth - everyone else is spending the same amount or more. (Newells's are much more)

quote:

I think you'd be way better off starting with the wide body in IL.
http://barthmobile.com/eve/for...333998277#9333998277
Might be lots of fixin to do on that also. But, you could probably shell out less than $20K to get it.

That's got a Cat 3116 6.6L TD - that's a small engine for that coach.

Hi Other Corey,

We bought Corey’s 97 34 ft Monarch Moonbeam Express (now our Tonka) from an RV dealer in Kentucky. We paid $35K for it in November 2010 and felt then as we still feel today that we got a truly wonderful Barth that fits our needs and represents exceptional value for a very fair price.

Tonka has led a really sheltered and charmed life and has been much loved and pampered by her owners. While she is still a 15 year old bus with some issues (mostly minor), her projects are for the most part typical maintenance projects with occasional more costly surprises. So far she has not shown any signs of needing potentially major repair or restoration events.

We bought an RV to use and enjoy during the summers while I’m still working, not to tax my very marginal knowledge and skills and limited time and budget.

For us the Barth Monarch you’ve been looking at would have been much too much of a project with too many open ended and potentially expensive condition and repair questions.

While a few of the things you saw are probably only minor issues, in sum total they will probably still add up to a fair piece of work and expense.

If you decide to pursue it, I’d really look into the basement pan rust and body damage, and have it checked out by the Cummins Coach Care in Atlanta and then still expect to repair and replace a bunch of 15 year old parts and fittings during the time she owns you.

Thanks and good luck in your search,
Wally