I spent about an hour with Mr. Hoyle yesterday and did a cursory look at the 93 32'Regency and the 95 34'Monarch. Cosmetically, both coaches are very nice. While I didn't drive either one, both appear fine mechanically. He had the 32' Regency running and the Cat sounded good as did the diesel generator. Interesting arragnement on the generator. It pulls out along with the entire front bumper for servicing. He doen't do it that way since he thinks the generator is too heavy. There is some basement storage, but not a tremendous amount if you're thinking about full timing. The paint on both coaches is very good. The 34' Monarch's 300 Cummins started up quickly and sounded strong as well. It has pass thru storage and would be my choice if I was full timing. Both of these coaches have been for sale for several months, and are probably worth what Dave says they're worth. If I didn't have the 28' Regal, the 32' would be very nice, but at $50000 is beyond my limit. I think the prices are pretty firm. Mr. Hoyle is a delightful man, still going full steam in the plumbing business and other enterprises. He is very knowledgeable and has been motorhoming for a long time. I only wish I could afford either one of these coaches. I wouldn't hesitate to drive either one to California tomorrow. If anyone is serious about either one, I'll go back over there, take a bunch of pictures and drive both of them.
Jim

[This message has been edited by humbojb (edited January 29, 2006).]

[This message has been edited by humbojb (edited January 29, 2006).]

I asked them for more interior pictures - they never sent them (of the Regency). I have a feeling they would prefer to sell the Monarch since it was on Ebay. The rear twins don't do much for me either. Paying $50K and then re-doing the bed layout can't be the best path to follow.

Mr. Hoyle would prefer to keep the Regency but his attitude is "whichever one sells first, I'll keep what's left over". He doesn't full time, and both coaches fit his needs equally. He had the 32' Regency before he bought the Monarch, so it must be his "baby", but he's very pragmatic about it. I don't think it would cost much to convert the twins. I had a Class C with a similar layout and it came equipped with a board you could use to bring the mattresses together and make a queen out of them.

Hi,

I just got off the phone with Mr. Hoyle and he seems like a very nice man. The Regency has a 250HP 3116 Caterpillar engine and a 4 speed transmission. It has no engine braking system. The twin bed sits at the same level as the top of the engine cover but the beds are about twice as long as the engine cover and your feet go to the floor, when you sit up in bed. The engine cover would make a good place to put you evening's reading material and doesn't seem like it would be in the way.

It's a shame we don't have more pictures of this really nice coach. I'm sure they would help Mr. Hoyle sell his coach.

The ONLY down side for me is the 4 speed. I was really hoping it would have the 6 speed Allison and the retarder. Could someone comment on this transmission?

Mr. Hoyle said he ususally gets about 9 mpg which isn't bad for that drive setup.

Bill

I have seen on other posts that the Cat 3108 was a "throw away" engine. but the 3116 is supposed to be much better. Can someone enlighten us on the different Cat engines and the pros and cons of each? A mechanic once told me that the Cat engines had far fewer moving parts and were therefore more dependable than the Cummins and easier to maintain and repair.

[This message has been edited by humbojb (edited January 31, 2006).]

I don't recall a 3108. Maybe the 3208? The original was introduced in the early 70's, and came in 3 basic versions: 3208NA, 3208T, and 3208TA; maybe the design was changed,but it was considered a legitimate 500K+ mile engine at the time.

It's my opinion that because certain engines are not easily rebuildable doesn't make them "throwaways". I suspect a lot of that reputation comes from applications where the engine is "rode hard and put up wet."

I was called in to a county fire/EMS department because their trucks were eating the Ford/IH 6.9L diesels at 40-80K. These are easily 400K+ engines if cared for. What was happening was that when they got a call, they started the engine and floored it, cold. No engine, especially diesels, can live long with that treatment.

The other problem was that they were using an inadequate motor oil, and not changing it at the correct intervals.

The simple solution was to install an extra block heater, and to keep them both plugged in, and to use the right lubricant. Death was extended to around 150K miles.

Genius on my part? Hardly - just treat the engine sensibly.

My first point is this: Oil is cheaper than metal!

I worked many years for Shell Oil as a field rep. Our test fleet of gaso cars (around 50) used to test fuels and lubes averaged 350K miles, and most had never had a valve cover off. They were driven by different drivers under different conditions. The key to success? The manufacturers maintenance schedule was followed. The instrumented fuels-test car (IIRC, a '68 Pontiac Catalina 400 cu in) had over 750K miles - original engine.

My second point is that I'm reasonably confident in stating that many engine problems are avoidable...which is why my '81 Nissan Maxima diesel is still on the road (sold to my sister, then sold to one of her friends who still has it) with 750K miles. Never even had a valve job.

That's not to say there aren't engines with design flaws or weaknesses, it's just that some engines with bad reps just need a bit more coddling than others.

All,

Could someone who's seen the Regency Mr. Hoyle has for sale, please describe the interior other than the twin beds? Specifically, what are the seating arrangements for eating. Does it have a dinette or table? My guess is that the beds are like those on the '91 Regency on the top of page 2 in the gallery and that the interior is similar to that in the '93 32' Regency in the middle of page 8 in the gallery.

From my research the 3116 which became the 3126 is basically the same as today's C7 Caterpillar. The C7 is a bit more environmentally friendly. The 3116 only has 250HP but the torque is up around 650#ft, so that should get over the mountains is fine form. We like the backroads, so the non-widebody is just fine with us. With a non-widebody 32'r I wonder if we'd even need a tow'd?

Before we drive to North Carolina, I'd like to know if it's worth the trip.

As I said, Mr. Hoyle and I spoke but we were both interupted by President Bush....

Thanks,

Bill

[This message has been edited by eugarps (edited February 01, 2006).]

[This message has been edited by eugarps (edited February 01, 2006).]

quote:

Originally posted by humbojb:
I have seen on other posts that the Cat 3108 was a "throw away" engine. but the 3116 is supposed to be much better.

I'm pretty sure that the 3108 that your talking about is really a 3208. The 3208 motors are v8's and the 3116 is a straight 6 cylinder. The 3116 motor has replaceable liners and is better equiped for multiple rebuilds.

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1991 Barth Regal
460 EFI C6 Transmission
33' Oshkosh/John Deere Chassis

http://www.TruckRoadService.com/

"Without Trucks,

America Stops"

The 32' Regency has 3 electically adjustable captains chairs, maroon, driver's, passenger's, and on curbside in front of the side entry door. There's a table between the pasenger's chair and the curbside chair and the passenger's chair easily rotates to face the table so two of you could easily eat there. The table extends so a third person could sit on the couch located on the drivers side directly behind the drivers chair, and enjoy dinner at the same table. As I recall the frig is curbside and has a separate top freezer. Sink, microwave, 2 burner stove on drivers side. Going back towards the rear of the bus, a small sink, toilet and full size shower are on the right. Opposite that, a large double closet. Built in drawers to the right of the built in closet. Then into the bedroom and the twin beds. Normal drawers there. This coach came equipped with a diesel furnace which Mr. Hoyle disconncected because he could smell diesel fuel when it was running. The furnace now is propane and he had necessary tanks installed. Furnace ducts are not in floor. They go under couch etc. The color theme is blue, with a berber tweed carpet installed by previous owner. Tile in the kitchen area as I recall.Tires were manufactured in 2001 and have probably 90% of the tread left on them. I could smell diesel from the generator while it was running. I'm sure that could be fixed somehow. I had a front generatior, diesel fueled, on a SOB and it was no problem. For that matter, my old Trek had a diesel engine in front and I couldn't smell a thing. Call me at 704-499-4888 if you want to talk some more. Just wish I could buy it myself.
JIm

I called my CAT guy here in Bloomington, MN one time to get some inside info. The 3208 and 3208T which is what is in most motorhomes is not a wet sleeve engine so you can not easily to in chassis rebuilds. However, he said that they switch out remans all day long for under $1500.00. I quized him on this because a 454 is like $3K or more. He said no, they do it all the time. the 3208 is common in construction equipment and even in large generators.

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Thanks, Jim.

A non-Barthmobile member was kind enough to send me some interior photos. Those along with a chat with Mr. Hoyle this morning will be enough for my wife and I to make the 480 mile trek to look at the coach. It seems the seat behind the table may move close enough to the table for my wife to be comfortable while she's eating.

Anyone here have any comments on Gillig chassis handling? Does it do winding mountain roads well? I'm not guessing is like my old Austin Healy 3000 but I'm hoping it won't frighten me. Also, anyone know if I could retrofit a Jacobs engine braking systen on it? How about swapping the 4 speed for a 6 speed Allison?

Thanks,

Bill

Seems to me that the Regency has a pac brake on it. Doubt if you want to switch a 6 speed for the 4 speed. It would be close to 5 grand. Mr. Hoyle says that the 4 speed turns 2100 RPM at 65 mph. That engine will last forever at that. There's no doubt that you can eat at the table from the co-pilot's chair. I turned it around and tried it (virtual food tho).

eugarps,

I have a 92, 36 foot Regency with a Gillig chassis. It handles remarkably well, considering the size. Good turning radius, and very stable on the road. I had a blow out (instantaneous) on my front passenger tire last summer on an interstate doing about 65 mph. The coach shuddered and front right side dropped to the rim. The coach never wavered or swerved, it just kept moving straight. I barely noticed it through the steering wheel as steering remained stable.

My three years or research on what to buy paid off at that moment. Blowouts such as this have flipped other coaches.

I had my wife, mother-in-law and the dog with me. Neither of the ladies new what happened or should I say understood what happened. The blow out did not go unnoticed. My dog was lying on floor at my wife's feet right over the tire. She made a bee line to the rear bedroom and was nervous riding in the coach for the rest of the summer.

It was an expensive incident, so don't ride on old rubber stick with the 5 to 6 year rule and get new tires. I was going to get new tires at the start of this season, but should had done so last year. I paid the price. The Barth is OK now with no major damage.

Gillig chassis are built like a tank and ride and perform extremely well.

Bill G

p.s. I also have the four speed tranny. It turns 1950 rpm at 67 mph powered by the Cummins 6CTA 8.3.

[This message has been edited by goodwinw (edited February 01, 2006).]

quote:

Originally posted by eugarps:
From my research the 3116 which became the 3126 is basically the same as today's C7 Caterpillar. The C7 is a bit more environmentally friendly.

All correct. Around 96/97 the 3116 went all electronic w/ HEUI Injectors. The 3126 was put in to service and for several years you could get a 3116 or 3126 at the same time. The only difference between the two motors is the head. The C7 designation is the emission motor for the 3126.

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1991 Barth Regal
460 EFI C6 Transmission
33' Oshkosh/John Deere Chassis

http://www.TruckRoadService.com/

"Without Trucks,

America Stops"

When was the last time that a "for sale" registered this many posts? Just goes to show that if you want to sell your Barth(Heaven forbid unless you're getting another one), just let Barthmobile at it and we'll produce results. Sounds like Eugarps is ready to buy it. If it works out, and I'm sure anyone who buys it will be satisfied, we would have put two people together that FMCA's classified couldn't in over a year. Way to go!