Thanks for the input Dave - I am such a newby at this that you can talk to me any way you want! My husband was so surprised at the info we were able to find and the dolly that seems to elude us - towing four wheels down seemed like an idea, until he added all the extras that are required to use it in Canada - we have very stringent laws regarding towing - so there are many things that must be used in order to tow in Canada - or if you get stopped, they simply take the tow vehicle and the tow-bar off the motor home and make you leave it there or you can drive the car, but not tow it. So - we are again searching for a very lite vehicle and a tow bar - (If I didn't like my Olds so much I would trade it in on a new little towable vehicle~!) Guess there are a lot more methods available and legal in USA - I wonder if we could tow the empty trailer to the border, drive the car to the border (only about 2 hours from here) and then put the car on the tow bar after we got into USA??? Guess I will have to keep gleaning info from any suppliers we can find, and from my fellow Barthmobile.com comrades! I have certainly learned more from this site than from all the dealers and experts we have found locally!
Thanks again
Linda

Would a 1999 Saturn wagon be easy enough to pull for the 1989 Royale? I see one advertised locally for a reasonable price and I am wondering if it would do the trick?
Thanks
Linda

Linda, I don't know what year your Olds 98 is, but I have had several. They were all heavy. With a tag, your Barth is better able to handle a heavy toad, but there is still a serious safety issue with a heavier vehicle.

The Saturn sounds good. With the wagon, you have the extra carrying space. Get a toad brake. I believe some provinces in Canada require them, anyway.

Ran into a guy the other day, been RVing almost as long as I have, but much younger than I. He has a 40' diesel S.O.B..

We talked about toads, and he turned thumbs down. He has a Vespa scooter he carries on the back bumper. Says it takes them both to the grocery store, or whatever, or out in the woods if they want to explore. He wouldn't pull a toad.

If we were twenty years younger, his idea would be appealing. A viable alternative for you?

Others I know rely on rental cars. At that, a less expensive alternative than the investment involved in buying a toad and equipping it to tow, but you trade the hassle of towing for the hassle of dealing with the rental process.

Too bad you sold the Tracker, they're great to tow, but I'm reminded of a favorite saying of my late father-in-law . "If you could predict the future, you could go around the world on a dime."

I used to have a Vespa scooter when I was a teenager - my dad wouldn't let me get a car at the time as he was worried what could happen to young girls in cars - and I loved it - I would get one now but my husband is not a small man and he has breathing problems so he can't drive one and I am not sure I could with his weight on it - but the idea is a great one if it was just me - Then there is always the concept that he hates shopping etc. anyway so I could always go alone and only bring back what I could carry on the scooter! We looked at the new Honda 50 which is styled similar to a Vespa and you don't have to mix the gas - but it is still only a 50 - and the Vespa I had was a 90. I had a little Suzuki 50cc vintage 1966 until a few years ago - but my husband was afraid I would end up in a ditch because of the drivers disregard for a small vehicle so he insisted I sell it - and I did sell it on Ebay to a fellow from NY state. The other advantage to a small cc bike is that they can be registered as a moped up here - and that makes it so you don't have to have a special license to drive it now. I have a motorcycle license but my husband doesn't. The other factor is that the little Honda is only $2000 Cdn new .

I think we will have to consider all options and then make a decision. We are pondering all this now because just after Christmas we plan to head out on a long tour of USA - 4-6 months we hope to travel for - and he is convinced we will definitely need a vehicle of some sort - for touring the grand canyon, and some other places that a 33' Barth may not traverse very easily.

Linda, I have owned maybe 50 motorcycles, two of which were Vespas. I commuted for years on them. They do not lend themselves to heavy adults on the rear seat. My present commuter bike is a Kawasaki GPZ550, which also does not carry a heavy passenger well, and I am a big guy myself. The greater the disparity between driver and passenger weight, the farther aft the center of gravity moves, and the worse the handling becomes. My Barth bike is a GPZ750, which is better. (The Ducati 900SS is better yet, due to its loooong wheelbase, but that is another story)

Even though I am a motorcycle nut and a daily rider, I would not recommend a small bike for your purposes. Even the GPZ750 is a little short coupled for us. The key feature seems to be the relationship between the center of mass of the passenger and the rear axle, although other features such as rake and trail enter in to the mix. Some of the mid size "cruiser" bikes seem to have good passenger weight distribution, but seating accommodations seem limited. If I had to do it over, I would look for a really clean early Honda Gold Wing. I don't have the numbers memorized, but I seem to recall that they were fairly light for such a good packing-double bike.

How's that Saturn look?

Linda, Ah, all the options but only one choice. You wrote you liked the Tracker you had, and that you are coming to the lower 48 this winter so consider an option of purchasing a Tracker here. There are 4 for sale in the Tucson paper this AM: ranging in vintage from 94 to 98, miles from 51K to 74K, with prices ranging from $1,950 to $6,350. Once you sort out when you must have a car for errands and such, access the newspaper wantads on the net in the nearest major city and go from there.

Linda, You have a lot of good advise here. One comment really seems important to me. That is Dave Bowers point about the weight of your coach and it actual towing/braking capacity. I would heed this advice as pulling, especially up hill, could be a problem with even a light car. Additionally, stopping becomes an issue as your coach appears to be heavier than other gas Barths. That means auxiliary braking will be needed. Stay small and light, get a Brake Buddy or some kind of braking device. Your husband is correct, you won't want to drive the Barth everywhere you want to go, a toad is essential.

------------------
Bill & Georgene Goodwin
92 Regency 36ft
300hp Cummins
Gillig Chassis

I am seeing more and more of these strange looking fiberglass bug eyed vehicles in my travels. My question is HAS ANYONE LOOKED INTO ONE? Cost? Side curtains? Fuel consummation?. Lic. plates? Power to go up hills? Empty weight? I know some auto dealers are selling, but most I see are FOR RENT. Saw them in Branson, and Pigeon forge. Thanks. Dale

[This message has been edited by DALE SMITH (edited October 29, 2003).]

Dale - which vehicle is the "strange bug-eyed vehicle" - There have been a lot of suggestions and not sure which one you mean?

Linda, I don't know anything about them, but they are new, kind of dune buggy looking with open sides, a top, and very rounded bodies. The ones I have seen are usually bright in color, and may even be electic, but I think they have a small gas engine. I would guess Dave will pull up a picture of one in a minute. He seems to have an endless file of pictures and data. Don't let me down now Dave. Dave, are you going to share my GHOST joke? You can leave the spelling of the forth word from the last blank.

[This message has been edited by DALE SMITH (edited October 29, 2003).]

Re: Toads. I bought an MCI 5A 35ft. bus instead of a Barth and found a picture in some paperwork of it pulling a jeep cherokee with a 17 ft. Boston Whaler on a trailer behind it. I got ahold of the previous owner and he said that it was 77 ft. all together and he drove it as far north as Alaska and Nova Scotia and as far south as Guatamala and only got stopped once by a cop and that was in Kansas. More guts than i got! I plan to tow an 87 wagoneer and if i ever get a boat it will be either an inflateable or a porta-bote on top of the jeep.

Very seriously Linda, we pull a Saturn. Saturn is indeed the number one toad. They are very light, they can easily be towed 4 down with very few exceptions. Like the new Saturn Vue in automatic. And the odometer does not turn.

We have a Saturn SC2 and it is a great towable. All you need to get is a tow bar, and the breast plate or brackets that go on the car. We hook up, (actually my wife Deb hooks up) in five minutes.

The two major manufactures of tow bars are Blue Ox www.blueox.us and Roadmaster http://www.roadmasterinc.com

It will cost you about $1,200 for all that you need plus installation of the breast plate. Plus you will need on more thing and that is a supplementary braking system. I would strongly suggest the Brake Buddy.

The Brake Buddy is extraordinarily easy to use and very effective. You can buy them new on ebay for around $800.00.

I know this is costly, however, there is nothing that replaces have a car with you.

Linda, did you get that PDF I sent you on 2003 towables? You will also find that one of the very popular towables is the Honda CRV or almost any Honda in fact.

Not to run on here, however, one reason you want to be careful about towing and weights is because your coach like all 33 footers is made so by an extension being welded to a much shorter frame. If I had your beautiful coach and I wanted to tow more than the 3500# you coach was spec'd at I would go to a "certified" welder and have some braces added. And, by the way, I would say that if you are towing a sub 3500lb Saturn or Honda or Tracker you will not have problems getting or mountains. You won't be speeding over them, but it would not be like towing a Jeep Cherokee where you would have to unhook and drive it over.

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[This message has been edited by davebowers (edited October 30, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by davebowers (edited October 30, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by davebowers (edited October 30, 2003).]

Well - we went out looking at small bikes-the Honda Ruckus etc. - and found out that we could 'fib' when we got them registered and say they are mopeds so that we would save on insurance and registration - but that they are not actually legally to be registered in Ontario as such. Thus, we have decided to wait and not buy the pair we were considering. The salesperson said we could both ride on one, but with my husband on it it was not feasible that I could ride with him as there was just enough room for him on it. There are seven provinces that register the low cc bikes as mopeds, and ours isn't one of them. After reading the replies here and looking up some US sites and some on Ebay, we have decided that I will bring my bicycle and we will get something after we get to the lower USA. We notice that there are many more available and more choice.
We just changed our insurance carrier up here for the Barth - to a carrier that handles only RV's - and he said that in 14 years he has never insured a Barth and didn't know what they were at all! So I referred him to this website and he was impressed! I told him they are the best motorhomes you can get!
Thanks so much for all the input. My husband has been in a tizzy trying to figure out what to do to be mobile for our upcoming trip. He is now settled to find something once we get on the road. We plan to leave shortly after Christmas and to be at Quartzite in January for the Rally so we can meet some other Barth owners etc. We expect to be roaming for 2-4 months, depending on our mood at the time, and travel wherever we want to go on the day.
Thanks again,
Linda

You might also check out the unified tow brake at www.usgear.com i like that once you install it you don't need to mess with it and you can switch it to another rig if you want to. On sale now till 4/04 and is about $1200 with installation.