https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2245.pdf

Here is a PDF on the specs for Amsoil.
It's ash count is 1% and was recommended by a NAPA heavy equipment place. So I tried it.

BTW the oil had nothing to do with the hard start no pedal. That was a combination of the Rakor? sp bowl, a small vacuum leak and a pinched line.

Cheers
Meric

quote:

Originally posted by Bubba Barth:
BTW the oil had nothing to do with the hard start no pedal.

Cheers
Meric

I doubt that anyone thought it did. So, excuse my thread drift.

I avoid Amsoil - its specs are hazy, as are the ASTM and other reported test results. Billyt53 got to rebuild my differential when, in a momentary lapse of common sense, I used Amsoil when I refilled after installing a Mag-Hytec cover. One very badly and 2 slightly damaged bearings later, I no longer use it.

Yeah there is no doubt that we are "learning as we go" with some of the liquid engineering out there. Typically most new stuff uses synthetic right out of the gate. It's simply better.

There are some applications where this is not true. A transmission that uses friction to align syncros will have trouble with synthetics unless it's friction ratio was calculated correctly.

Differentials are another story. Synthetics are better; however, getting the liquid to mimic the way natural oil behaves can prove difficult. The old differentials pinion bearings are fed after movement occurred. And most still are. So when applying Synthetic to old technology there is a bit of math involved. And even if done correctly the data supplied was inaccurate.

What they are seeing in the differential shops is the liquid is too slippery and does not adequately supply the pinion with lube. A friction modifier can be added to get the synthetics to mimic naturals behavior. But why bother?

At some point there is a cost benefit analysis we must all do. In some cases the good old fashioned things work better. More often than not technology will prevail. Synthetics are better hands down no question about it. Well that's my opinion and one that seems to be shared throughout the Auto manufacturing world.

Cheers

Meric

Synthetics are chemically the same as the mineral oils. Most all the characteristics specific to an application is supplied by the additive package, so the use of synthetics isn't going to change the properties.

What synthetics offer is homogeneity and purity. From out of the ground, base stocks will be carefully processed, but a variety of viscosities and molecular structure are going to be present, as well as a small amount of impurities. The impurities shorten the life of mineral oil as some react with each other, while others react with air or moisture.

That said, I use synthetic where long service is typical (i.e., differentials and in my gaso car, which sits a lot). Diesel motor oil should be changed when the additive package is depleted, and the base stock has little effect on that depletion; neither mineral or synthetic base stock will be degraded to any extent over the usual change intervals. In any event, as folks here have seen me chant, "Oil's cheaper than metal!"

No question about that Rusty. Maintenance is cheaper than hard parts breaking.

When Synthetic brake fluid came around it was amazing. Finally a non hydroscopic brake fluid... Anyhoo

Look forward to the GTG. Lots of experts I am sure. Now you know I am also an expert. But in this case EX being former and Spert being a drip under pressure. Sounds better than it writes.

Cheers
Meric

Hey rusty go weigh a qt of GL 90 then weigh a qt of synthetic 90 weight. There is a specific gravity difference between synthetic and natural oils. GL90 will spool up the pinion due to it's specific gravity and it's friction ratio. Synthetics will not spool without additives like a lucas oil IE a behavior modification to the fluid.

The base stock is only a start. The additive package is the key. Lucas oil is, in industry parlance, "mouse milk".

I also had trouble with Amsoil diff oil, in not one but 3 different vehicles. When I first got the Breakaway I changed all the lubricants and used Amsoil, within 1K miles the diff that was quiet before, now started to whine. Same thing in my SUV and BMW M6, in a short time a high frequency whine developed!

Replaced diff oils with Castrol heavy duty gear lubricant as well as adding lots of Power Punch additive, whine in the Breakaway is much less but probably will not go away completely.

I also used Amsoil in the Allison transmission as they claim to meet Allison's spec, however, after the first 10K miles I was changing again to get most of the old trans fluid out and I saw some brass like spec deposits coming out with the oil, second oil change 10K mile later, more of the same. I had noticed that the shift from 3rd to 4th was getting a bit lazy. It wouldn't break out but just a bit slower than before.

I let the unit sit for a couple of weeks and then drained all the trans fluid out and replaced it with Allison synthetic fluid (Castrol) 5k MILES completely changed again, Brass specs greatly reduced, 10k miles later I changed again, almost no brass specs this time. Lesson learned!

BTW, Allison claims that after they switched to synthetic trans fluid their warranty claims dropped by 70%.

I do not use synthetic oil in the engine although I do use Kendall synthetic blend as it gives me higher oil pressure in all operating conditions. Most all reports indicate that using synthetic oil in diesels is a waste of money, just change regularly. The combustion byproducts of diesel fuel is not nearly as contaminating as gasoline. In my fleet of trucks years ago, we just changed 5K miles (Detroit 2 stroke) and later 10K-12K miles in the Cummins. Detroit engines went over 300K miles and the Cummins went over 900K miles. Only trouble I had was Oil leaks in the Detroit engines and driver neglect!

I have used all types of brake fluid over the years and am not enamored by silicone brake fluid. To switch over you MUST completely flush the system thoroughly! I also found that the peddle feel was softer and not as firm as Dot III, or Dot 4. This use was in corvettes that I was racing at the time, Later I experienced the same thing with my BMW track cars! I stayed with ATE Dot 4 or until Dot 5.1 came out.

See this Dot 5 discussion from Moss Motors:
Moss silicone brake fluid discussion

I changed to Dot 5.1 in the Breakaway years ago and flush every year. Dot 5.1 is NOT silicone based, just a slightly improved Dot 4.

I put over 20K miles on the Breakaway every year. One thing I like about ATE Dot 4 is it is available in blue and amber color. Helps when flushing as it will change color when flushing is complete.

JME

Got that flush part right. But synthetic brake boils at a higher temp and is non hydroscopic meaning the brake fluid does not turn corrosive after sitting for a long time it's PH stays the same. Brake fluid being a hydraulic system synthetics should not change pedal feel. Never has for me nor the hundreds of brake systems I have changed over to synthetic. Air?

Synthetic is a waste of money with Diesel engines. But you can't take it with you.

We are all looking for the next best thing. Sometimes we are on the leading edge and sometimes we are on the bleeding edge of technology. Either way it's fun.

Cheers
Meric

I read the article MWrench. Very interesting.

Sounds like your experience is similar to mine. My main brake experience is setting up cars (100s) for racing applications. In every case where the driver specified silicone Dot 5 they complained of spongy brake peddle. I did used a vacuum method of bleeding the brakes but still to no avail. My own racing experience was the same.

Dissolved air the is main cause of spongy peddle and of the chemistry of silicone fluid molecules

Compressibility of Dot 5 brake fluid is very well discussed and understood. This is why Dot 5 is NOT used in racing applications.

Dot 5.1 will meet Dot 5 wet and dry boiling points. Sure Dot 5.1 is hygroscopic and care must be taken to flush regularly.

With air over hydraulic in the Breakaway, I don't need any more spongy feel then I already have. With that LONG brake line to the rear It take a lot of attention to get it right.

Yeah it's funny because it's constantly changing and we are constantly learning. That's what makes it fun. Remember Nitrogen in tires? Cool but it played hell with the TPMS and corroded the aluminum caps to where you could not fill the tire.

There are more TSB's when referring to fluids it's crazy. Generally fluid specifics and recommendations have a lot to do with driving environment and style.

I opened up a Syn VS Natural oil tech topic to keep this thread drift to a minimum.

https://www.barthmobile.com/eve...1087061/m/3833994187

Cheers
Meric

I just got off the phone with a Chevron lube tech. Delo 100 is still being manufactured today for these motors with no intention of stopping production. The only known substitute product by Chevron I presume is URSA Super Plus SAE 40.

Certainly there must be another alternative. Just trying to stay as flexible as possible. Does Shell make one?

Cheers
Meric