My speedo quit.
Found the cable core twisted into about four inches from the cruise control unit going to odometer.
Replaced with universial kit being very precise about length and lube.
Hand tested and it spun good.
Appeared to be no damage on either end of old core.
This attempted fix failed.
What next?

Don
'84 Regal 28
454/P-30

PS: For future reference - You can test your Genset's elect fuel pump by taking it off, putting the tank end into a can of gasoline and touching the leads to a 12v battery. Just watch out which way you point the damn thing to avoid blistered scrotum syndrome.

Be sure yoiur new cable ends are properly squared, and properly seated at both ends. If you swaged your new universal cable end with the tool that came in the kit, be sure that it doesn't slip on tthe cable end. When you're certain that everything is assembled properly, and it still doesn't work, the problem is in the drive end (not likely) or the speedo head (quite possible since the original cable was twisted off).

Try to spin the speedo by hand. If it doesn't spin smoothly, the problem is probably there. If it does, find, or make something with a right-sized square end to fit the speedo, chuck it in an electric drill that doesn't spin lke gangbusters, and rotate the speedo with the drill. If it doesn't work, buy a new speedo. If it works with the drill, but not in the rig, ask somebody else - it beats me.

In re: sparks near open gasoline containers. I once owned a 43' wooden classic cruiser with gas engines. I fueled up one day at my regular marina after he had done some wiring. I heard a little click as I inserted the nozzle, but thought nothing of it.

I heard a bigger click as I removed the nozzle. I picked up the tank cap, and my shadow fell on the tank opening where a pretty blue flame flickered. My eyes got big, I set the cap down on the deck, blew gently on the flame, and it went out. Knees shaking, I put everything back, called the operator over, and told him what happened. He smiled and said "bullshit." I touched the hose nozzle to a bolt on the float, and got a beautiful arc. It was my turn to smile, as he got white, and his knees started shaking.

Why did the boat, the operator, the fuel float, and I all survive? The mixture of gas fumes and air in the tank didn't have enough oxygen to burn anywhere but at the very tank opening where it was exposed to outside air. This scenario, however, doesn't apply to sparks and gas in open containers.

I still haven't figure out why I didn't get electrocuted, unless my rubber-soled boat shoes kept me from being grounded.

Thanks olroy,
Guess you were making that post while I was composing this one.

A little more investigation:
Rechecked the connection at ARA Cruise Control vacuum pump.
When I hand turn the cable core to speedomenter, it registers.
I can also spin the cable core from the CC pump to the tranny with my fingers, (Is this normal with tranny in Park?)
Vacuum line to CC pump looks good.
Cable to trottle looks good.
The CC vacuum pump has two elect wires - Are these pumps subject to electrical malfuction? ARA in Texas, who manufactured this thing, seems to have gone out of business right after they made this unit so no help there.

Olroy; I once burned up the plastic gears in a speedo using the drill technique. Earlier today, I got 15 MPH with a twist between thumb and forefinger. A high rpm drill motor would smoke the thing.

As for you fuel spark, that was indeed a scarry story. You were very lucky...must have been a cool morning. I've seen some nice boats destroyed by someone forgetting to turn on the bilge blowers before cranking.

My recent idiot trick involved soaking my crotch with raw gasoline. I hit the shower within 15 seconds as I'd experienced caustic burn of the tender regions when I overfilled my scooter tank while sitting astraddle. I was so dumb then (18) I just thought the cold liguid would evaporate. I got down the road about a mile when I had to dismount, get buck naked on the side of a busy highway and douse myself with a canteen full of water which seemed to have no effect. Still suffering, I spotted an old country church across the highway, hopped back on scooter, and found a spigot of just the right height behind the church. To make short of the long, I peeled for 2 weeks and walked kinda funny.

Don

[This message has been edited by dogill (edited March 29, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by dogill (edited March 29, 2005).]

quote:

Originally posted by dogill:

I can also spin the cable core from the CC pump to the tranny with my fingers, (Is this normal with tranny in Park?)

Nope.

And you guys don't even want to know about skydrol.

Bill h,
What is skydrol or why don't we want to know?
Sooo, if I can finger spin the cable core to tranny, while in "Park", there's a problem Houston?
Braced for the punchline.

don

quote:

Originally posted by dogill:
Bill h,
What is skydrol or why don't we want to know?
Sooo, if I can finger spin the cable core to tranny, while in "Park", there's a problem Houston?
Braced for the punchline.

don

Skydrol is an aircraft hydraulic fluid. It will soften your screwdriver handle and wreck the soles of your shoes. Even so-called oil proof soles. It will also do terrible things to your skin. Particularly sensitive areas. For the chemically inclined, it is a phosphate ester (or diester), and is almost fireproof, unlike the petroleum based 5606. The older Skydrol 300 was worse than the current 500.

On the cable, if you have a P30 with a TH400 trans, the cable should not turn unless the tailshaft is turning.

I do have TH400 tranny. On the tranny end of cable in the tranny itself, what kind of gear device transfers shafts rmp to the cable? Do these, whatever they're called, wear out? While in "Park", is it possible the cable core would turn in the wrong direction?
The only test I can think of is to disconnect tranny to CC vacuum cable in the doghouse and take a ride down the road to see if cable core is spinning. If it does, then I would have to think that the transfer gear device in the CC unit itself would be suspect?

Skydrol huh? Found any RV applications for this HAZMAT cool-aid?
I realize that I could bypass CC but I dooz like CC. Maybe something just needs an attitude adjustment with a 3 lb. ballpain hammer, Ron style.

Is there an aftermarket replacment of the whole dam thing available and how not inexpensive might that be? That I prolly really don't want to know. Seems there's no gett'n around every new vintage Barth owner paying his/her dues.

[This message has been edited by dogill (edited March 30, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by dogill (edited March 30, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by dogill (edited March 30, 2005).]

I've had no experience with GM speedo drives, but I've had a couple of old Mopars with intermediate servos for the CC. One servo went bad & I replaced it with a junk yard unit. Another rig had the wrong driven gear on the tranny end. Replacement was simple and inexpensive, once I calculated which gear I needed. The mesh was adjustable to accomodate different-sized gears, and the gears could disengage if things got loose.

Your description of the problem suggests a broken cable between the servo & the tranny, or drive gears on the tranny that are stripped or disengaged. On the Mopars, the drive gear from the tranny was a metal worm gear, the driven gear was plastic.

J.C. Whitney has several after market CCs, ranging from $120 to $250. I've used a couple. The cheapie lasted about as long as the warranty.
The one with the piggy-back turn signal control was best. That's listed at $129.99 for '90 to '05 vehicles with VSS installed, or $139.99 for older vehicles that require a magnetic drive shaft pick-up coil. I've only used that kind. No big deal to install for the average shade tree mechanic.

Your local parts house probably has some in their catalog too.

Just went up to the top and discovered you have an '84 - definitely a candidate for the magnetic drive shaft pick-up. But replacing the CC won't solve your speedo problem.

[This message has been edited by olroy (edited March 30, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by olroy (edited March 30, 2005).]

olroy,

1. Any special tools or technique for accessing the tranny's metal worm gear and plastic driven gear?

2. The cruise control thingy in the doghouse that looks like a large vacuum pump....is it called the "servo" or the "regulator", or are they one in the same?

Trying to get a little edjewkayshun here, please bear with me.

Just read your added paragraph. Now, more confused as I'm more interested in what will solve my speedo's problem.

thanks,
don

[This message has been edited by dogill (edited March 30, 2005).]

quote:

Originally posted by dogill:
Olroy,

Any special tools or technique for accessing the tranny's metal worm gear and plastic driven gear?

There is one bolt that holds a clip. Remove it and grasp the round adapter by one of its flanges and pull out with a rotating motion. Fluid will run out. Use a new O ring on reassembly.

But before you do that, check and see if Roy is right about the cable. A failed cable is more likely than a stripped gear. It IS plastic. The metal drive worm gear is part of the output shaft, and is unlikely to have failed.

If you really want a cruise control, the modern aftermarket ones are pretty good. Due to engine vacuum dropping, they don't climb hills well, but are good on level ground. Not too hard to install.

Hold the phone!

With black oily residue to my armpits, eight skinned knuckles, and numerous expletives later, I found (in spite of Ron's blasphemy of "Murphy's Law") that the cable core from tranny to CC servo/regulator is totally FUBAR.

At the doghouse end - broken off clean, four inches from end.
At the tranny end - snarled and twisted into, right behind the square end. I think the sleeve must be ruined too as no amount of pulling force will fully retrieve the cable core.

I'm going to have to take out the entire cable sleeve. My biggest concern is determaining the exact length of replacment since the cable core is so messed up. A good question would be;

(How much square end protrusion length to add to total sleeve length?)

Another concern is that this particuliar cable is of a smaller diameter than the one going to speedo.

What really gets my goat is; I asked the folks at the tranny shop to check the cable when Barth was getting her routine PM filter and fluid change a couple weeks ago. They said it looked fine. BS! It showed no evidence of having been unscrewed and trust me, there would have been tool marks. You need to be a midget with monkey's hands to work on these things.

Murphy is alive and well. People, keep your cables lubed! Both my cable cores failed near the CC control in the hot doghouse, just above the motor. Both were dry and rusty. I didn't want to believe that both cables were at fault.

Living and learning,

don

Okay Gentlemen,

Thanks for your help thus far, I'm almost there and will try to keep this one short and simple.

The origial 54"L, flare to flare, cable sleeve from tranny is unsalvagable. Are these available, ready made, from GM or will good parts store make you a custom replacment?

I was wrong about core dia., they are the same. The smaller dia. I was looking at was caused by migrating wire strands.

One more thing - will it leak fluid to run it without cable attached to tranny?

don

quote:

Originally posted by dogill:
Are these available, ready made, from GM or will good parts store make you a custom replacement?

don

Are you going to use the cruise control? If so, I doubt that GM will be of much help.

Is the housing intact? If so, a good auto parts store will have a universal inner cable, which you cut and install the end yourself. If not, as I fear, a local speedometer shop can make a custom length complete cable assembly. They tend to be pretty high, though, so shop around. Hemmings has ads, as do other old car magazines.

quote:

One more thing - will it leak fluid to run it without cable attached to tranny?

Probably not. If the old cable was dry at the end, there should be no leakage with it removed. Check to be sure.

yes Bill h,

I want the CC to work. I tested the CC by sticking the square end of broken cable in tranny side of the cruise control gizmo and it works. The cable housing is shot due to wire strands balling up and rupturing the housing. (the more pulling force I apply, the bigger the housing swell gets) Since both cables first broke within four inches of the CC unit, and both were dry and rusty at fracture point, I deduce that the hot, moist vacuum air (condesation+high temp+ long periods of no use = lube breakdown and extreme friction?) contributed to the original failure.
Don't think we have a local speedometer shop so I will surf the net and check for possible close matches at auto parts store.

thanks,
don

I have a custom built replacement on the way. The tech I spoke with was very knowledgable of motorhomes requiring these out of date, ARA mgf, CC cables and housings.

For future reference, the source was:
APT Instruments International, Inc. in Bloomington, MN.

Guess I get a break until the brown truck arrives.

What is the bestest cable lubercater?

Thanks fellers, hope this does the trick.

don in Dixie