Jim , call me at 618 466 2799 . I emailed you but Im not sure you received same . jerry abert

Jim - Sorry I missed your call. I would like to talk to you about the Cat conversion. Please call again and leave your number if I am not in. I will return your call.
Take Care,
Steve

I have been searching for the least expensive way to save my Barth. I think I got my answer yesterday. I found a good used running 8.2t 230hp it is in a bus taken out of service. The engine was remaned by detroit diesel 8-11-97. The engine is complete with turbo,starter,alt.and air compressor for $2750 and if I want the trans. $750 more. Any comments for anyone... thanks

Jim & Barb:

I would strongly consider it, because I'd do the work myself, with the following thoughts... excuse me if I play the "Devils Advocate" here... (apologies in advance to Dave)

So it costs just under 3k... how many hours/miles on it? rebuilt in 97? that means it is six years old already... would make me think twice...

Was it, FOR SURE, an engine with the most recent Detroit factory upgrades? You MUST make sure the head-bolt upgrade has been done on this engine or it's not worth it... it should be a 15mm head bolt, and the engine S/N should be POST 8G-139423. (according to the Detroit diesel shop manual) that will ensure the engine has; 1) the head-bolt upgrade... 2) the water pump upgrade... 3) the crankcase breather upgrade. 4) Oil pan and seal upgrade? Tthose four done? then it's a gamble worth considering...

PS, don't be discouraged, as the CAT 3208 went through similar problems/fixes... each has it's own personality and foibles...

Did the bus run or did it sit? One that ran is preferable, IMHO... Can you hear it run/inspect it? how's the oil pressure when hot? It might be worth it to pay a Diesel shop to run a compression check on it. Take an oil sample and have it analyzed. One cdan tell a great deal from these two simple and cheap diagnostic tools... Any signs of front/rear seal leakage? CHEAP seal, VERY expensive labor to fix it... unless the engine is out of the vehicle! And while it's out, I'd consider doing a complete seal and gasget job on the engine while the engine was out of the bus, anyway... since it's out, easy to r&r all seals... (unless there is NO sign of oil leakage)

Are you going to do the work? If so, you'll save some dollars, and it may be worth it, BUT, if you are paying a shop, the labor would be the SAME, used engine or new, so... a few more thousand for a NEW from CAT reman'd 3208 would solve the DD 8.2 issue once and for all. Actually, the labor would be LESS with an install of a 3208, because you would not be paying for 10-15 hours bench time to replace every seal/gasket.

And man, the picture of the CAT in the Regency that Dave posted looks sweet, like they were made for each other... fits like a glove...

I guess my bottom line here is: Yes, consider it, but perhaps hold out for the same deal in a 3208... and re-power with a used nearly new CAT motor instead...

Good luck, Chris

P.S. Remember, God is too busy to care about your engine problem, so, you'll have to do it yourself!!

Chris, Thanks for the info. I think the upgrades apply to this engine. The serial# is 8gr34xxx. There are about five buses that are being taken out of service all have the same starting serial # except one which is 8gr109xxx. These buses were only used during tourist season and not all year long and were well maintained. The 3208 was just too expensive for me and too many alterations had to be made.
Thanks Jim
P.S. God is God -hence He cannot be too busy. Don't put human limitations on Him.

Well, I'm glad God invented a sense of humor!

Regardless that, sounds like your engine deal could be a good one... are these busses being sold complete for +- $2700.00? Are you going to buy it complete and scrap the body? How's the swap going to happen?

I'm asking because I've just started up mine after doing pretty comprehensive work on it, water pump, front plate, seal, all hoses, radiator re-core, the up-graded oil pan, etc. As I was working on it I had the opportunity to contemplate an engine swap. I think, with the proper tools, like a 20 ton floor jack, I could have the engine out in a good day or two. The bumper comes off and there is a "center section" to the rear frame cross-member that can come out. The radiator comes out in about an hour, then with the frame section removed, one could disconnect and slide the engine out pretty cleanly. Doing it "shade tree" I think it could be swapped in two-three weekends.

Good luck, sounds like you've hit on a good engine deal. I hope all goes well, and that you get that coach up and running soon.

Cheers, Chris

Jim: are you sure of that serial number? If it's a "1" not an "r" that engine block could be PRE upgrade... though I suppose the "R" could stand for "remanufactured"... regardless, you should be able to tell about the head bolt job by looking on the head... if it has an "S" on it, I believe it is the OLD system. a "15" means new bolt. Something like that. the factory also stamped "15" on the top plate of the block when doing the upgrade during remanufacturing. It might be worth a trip to your local Detroit Diesel dealer/shop and asking the service manager about how to identify, FOR SURE, that this engine has the crucial head/head bolt upgrade. My understanding is that once this is done these engines become pretty darn reliable...

Chris, The engine will have to be shipped to my mechanic. The price is just for the engine. I thought about the idea of buying the whole bus but then what would I do with it after the engine was pulled. Also someone else suggest I pay for a power test? I think that the same as a compession check. I've been told this type of check runs between $300-400 for it. Yes I am somewhat nervous about putting in a used engine but then again the rebuilt in mine had only about 12000 miles on it before it turned into a steam engine. The mechanic also told me if I went with a reman or rebuilt I would probably have to pay the core charge because he thinks they won't except mine.
Thanks again, Jim If anyone else wants to jump in on this please feel free as I need all the pro & cons to be told.
P.S. Chris My mechanic told me to stay away from the one with 8gr109xxx as it was reman in 1996. I don't know anything about diesels but I'm slowly learning.

Jim: Diesels really are no mystery... simpler than gas in many ways, and the story on these 8.2's is much like any engine. CAT had similar problems the first years the 3208's were out. They engineer ways around the issues, and then the engine is more stable. Bad luck your other rebuilt one went so early, but I wouldn't hesitate putting a used engine in, especially one with a service history. Did you have the other one installed or were you told it was "rebuilt only 13,000 miles ago"?

When you have the work done, and your mechanic want's to dispose of the core, you should keep the turbo, the starter and the injection pump, or at least the shut-off solenoid. They are expensive, and good to have. They don't take up much room in the garage... Heck, I think a new turbo is close to $2000.00, and the starter, 4-500.00! Yikes! The shut-off solenoid is between 1 and 200. Come to think of it, I replaced an exhaust manifold with a new one and the part alone was $250.00. Each.

One last logistical thought... if your mechanic is near the source, it might be a wise idea to pay him a few hours of time to go visually check it out before it's removed from the bus, when he can hear it, see the exhaust color, look at the maintenance records etc. I would only do a compression test if he then suspects something. I mean, I assume you would have your choice of a few diifferent motors, eh? you could just get the best of the bunch...

Make sure the seller is selling it complete, not partially stripped, or anything. you don't want to be nickeled and dimed to death...

Good Luck!

Chris

Chris, The prior owner of my Barth had the engine rebuilt. This was in 1999 I found the paperwork on it and it only has about 12000 on it....but wait theres more it was a rebuilt reman and it was done by a truck mechanic in north Florida. I did not know all this until I went thru the paperwork. If I had I would have walked away from this Barth. My mechanic doubts it was a true rebuilt since it was on a reman. I know all engines having problems and corrections. Your right about having the extra parts. My mechanic said the same thing-thats all money in the bank(or parts in the garage). Well tomorrow is the day I make up my mind on this used engine. Thanks Jim

So, Jim and Barb... have you decided yet? Wish you the best on this...

Chris, Yes we did. I went with the used engine (and all the spare parts). The guy I'm getting the engine from stated he would select the very best one for me. He is running up each one and checking for max performance and then he will do a tune up on it. He understood my concerns on the used engine. He also waived the crating charge and I just have to pay for the shipping. He is also including some type of pre heat starting module(and the wiring diagram). He stated it keeps the engine from smoking when first starting it. I think this is a cool/cold weather starting feature ,however I'm not sure on that. Thanks for the best wishes. Jim

Hi to all- just an update- as posted before I went with buying a used engine. My mechanic had to change the bell housing from my engine to the new-used engine so the tranny would align up.
The owner of the shop and the mechanic called and said "we have something to show you about your engine" and you need to come and look at this. I was feeling the blues until I got there. They were'nt talking about the engine I bought, it was the old engine. The entire top portion of the engine was filled with what appeared to be STP engine treatment/motor honey or whatever. It was so thick when I had my oil changes done it would not come out. The 'stuff' on top came out about one drop every 10 seconds. The mechanic stated he doesn't know what was used but could not believe how thick it was. I'd never seen anything like it.
He then gave me good news-the new used engine I bought was extremly clean and appeared very well taken care off.
I took the radiator home and spent one whole day cleaing dirt and grease out of the fins. I then spent the next two days fitting an aluminum plate over were the shroud was. I cut four 14" holes and installed four 14" eletric fans. I did away with the egine fan as the new used engine never had an engine fan on it. Both the shop owner and the mechanic said just wire the fans direct so that when the engine is running the fans are on. Since the 8.2 is a heat sensitive engine I agreed. I am saving about 15hp by not having an engine fan plus the new-used engine is a 230hp and my old one was only 205hp. I should see approx a 40hp gain. With-in the next several days the engine transplant should be completed and I'll keep you posted with the results.