quote:

Originally posted by timnlana:
Hi Lee and Carl:

my racer buddies will put a dash of bon-ami in the cylinders to get the rings to seat but I do not know if this works with the oil ring or just the compression rings. Any thoughts?

Thanks to all:

Timothy

I have heard about this since the Coolidge administration, but have never actually seen it done. Usually, it is discussed in the context of a NEW set of rings that "refuse to seat". I don't think it would help a broken-in engine.

One issue here is how much blowby you really have. A PCV system is supposed to take care of the normal blowby. It sucks a little air into the manifold from the crankcase, and a little air is in turn sucked into the valve pan by way of the hose connected to the air cleaner. If blowby is excessive, the PCV cannot handle it all, and a positive pressure exists in the crankcase which is vented to the air cleaner, oiling the filter. I have tested PCV systems by laying a Kleenex on the hole in the valve pan (where the air cleaner hose connects) and looking for a bit of suction indicating the desired air flow.

Again, how is the oil consumption and compression?

Never tried the Bon Ami bit, but once, on a Mopar 360 with brown glaze on the cylinder walls from oil induced through bad intake seals, I tried a John Geraghty trick.

I ran each piston to the bottom of the bore, scuffed each cylinder wall in a horizontal pattern with honing oil and fine emery paper until the brown was gone, wiped it out, oiled it heavily, put the newly overhauled heads back on and fired it up.

I expected a lot of smoke until the oil burned away, but I sweat for a few minutes while it smoked heavily.

The smoke diminished in ten minutes, or so, but one stack still puffed. A 30 minute drive, and that cylinder sealed, too.

Oil consumption diminished, and power improved, but I'm sure the major benefit was the fresh valve job with thin wall bronze valve guide inserts, and new valve stem seals. Nonetheless, I'd do it again.

IF YOU EVER TRY THIS, DO NOT - REPEAT - DO NOT SCUFF YOUR CYLINDER WALLS VERTICALLY - ONLY HORIZONTALLY

Geraghty suggests not doiing this if you have more than 40K on the engine, or if cylinder taper exceeds .004 in, but I had over 80K, and it worked fine. Never measured the taper.

If you deglaze like that, it is best to put a little thick grease around the edges of the pistons to seal any abrasive and metal particles from going into the crankcase or scuffing the bore. Wipe up all you can afterwards, then run the piston full up and a little down. Wipe again.

John Geraghty and John Lingenfelter are my heros. I first met John G when he helped my slant six Cortez get out of its own way.

Timothy,

FWIW: Here's a good debate site regarding your Bon-Ami proposal......

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid...a/pging/1/page/1.cfm

There is a post in here from timnlana about using 2 quarts for 300 miles. When Carl Buckstadt said "hi think rings" I think he said it all.

I hope there is another repair, like adding a pcv valve, or that the vent for the oil cap might help relieve some of the internal pressure. When someone buys a "new to them" rig it sure stinks to pour additional money into it like an engine swap or rebuild.

I hope for there sake it doesn't turn into a major hassle or they get turned off of there Barth. That's what I love about this site. People helping people.

I purchased my Barth for next to nothing and if I wasn't a mechanic it would have taken me to the cleaners by now. A labor of love is how I am treating my Barth and I enjoy working on her.

Timnlana, I hope the Bon-Ami works for you. Do a compression test and post the results for us. Please keep us posted and good luck.

Bill

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http://www.truckroadservice.com/

In reply to Lee, if my 454 is using almost a quart per thou, I consider it an aged mill, and maybe I've been seriously led astray, but my wrench buddys tell me that changing oil is great, but doing anything to clean the innards will do more harm than good, because there are places where the deposits are sealing and to remove them will be asking for valve seal leaks, etc. The oils made for older engines are, I understand, a much lower detergent for this very reason. Also, I've never talked to a wrench that would recomend Mobile 1 or any synthetic in anything but a brand new engine. The reason, as I understand it, is that synths lubricate too well for a worn out engine, failing to take up the space where clearances are a little more than they should be, leading to MORE wear wherever a little is already happening.
As on any tech-engineering topic, I respectfully entertain the opinions of the members we are lucky to have in this forum who teach this house builder a thing or twenty every day.

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Dan & Suzy Z
'81 Euro 28

Big block chevies are noted for using oil. I would not draw any conclusions one way or the other on oil usage alone. But, if combined with low compression, oil usage points toward worn rings, or glazed cylinder walls.

Opinions on synthetic oil are all over the map. Synthetics sometimes leak more than dino oil on older vehicles.

I think if I were to remove the heads to break the glaze, I would drop the pan and do rings and rod bearings, too. And maybe mains. At the minimum, Plastigage it. And a three angle valve job and sleeve the guides.

With the heads off, it would be a good time to put on a Performer intake. And Thorleys. Not too much money, but lots of time. Thorlies cam come later if all that is too big a chunk out of the wallet, but the Performer is easiest when the thing is already apart.

And a chrome air cleaner lid.

BTW, with reference to the previously posted site, Clubbmaxx is worth listening to. We correspond frequently, and even when we differ a little, he is always well-informed and experienced.

Hi:

Thank you for the additional information. The link to the office conversion site is great and I never thought about dumping a mixture into the carb, I think that is what I will try next.

Thus far, new PCV valve. It connects at the end of a hose on the driver side valve cover, it looks to be original. The vent to the other valve cover was missing a filter and has also been replaced.

New starter motor and the exaust manifold gasket and donut on the passenger side have been replaced, I had an exaust leak and this makes it easy to replace the starter motor.

I also replaced the wire harness as the lead to the starter solenoid was heat damanged by the exaust and had abrated through and was shorting to the block. The new wire harness is heave gage and has been run using that high rent braded insolation stuff.

Now Bill as I paid $50.00 less for my rig than you did for yours I walked in knowing that this was going to cost time and treasure and both of us came in as such a low price we will end up with rigs built the way we want them for a price that will allow us to run them on Bill H(s) truffle oil.

More to come after I get the wires hooked up and see where I stand.

Timothy

By the way oil use is down to about one half quart every 300 miles.

FWIW, I once had a 454 Suburban for which the regular drill was 1 tank gas, 1 qt. oil - 2 qts. per tank at 80 MPH. I restored it (body, not engine) 10 years ago, sold it 8 years ago, and still see it around town.

GM has a chart that postulates acceptable oil use in a 454, at various weights and speeds. For the average motorhome, anything above about 500 mi./qt. would be acceptable to them.

As Bill H said, the early 454s were renowned as oil hogs. If you've doubled your mileage to 600 mi./qt., something's loosening up with regular use.

Danny,

Good points all....Thanks for the input.

In my case, the engine has been going thru a dino oil/Marvel flush-before-change scenario since new (75k mi ago)....In theory, I shouldn't have any build-up to break loose and wreak havoc. I could see where a crud-laden older engine could have problems with a sudden crankcase enema if it wasn't used to the routine - hopefully my 454 has become accustomed to this procedure......

As to synthetic oils, Billh is right....Seems I can read as much positive as negative stuff if I look hard enough, but for the short term I think it's worth a try.....Using the "First, do no harm" principle, I figure that trying synthetic oil can't seriously hurt anything, and maybe even show an improvement......The engine is a zero leaker now, so that should give me one benchmark to measure....before-n-after compression numbers will be another.....

Lee:

A caveat, my brother put synthetic in his pickup at about 70k. The engine when running dino oil never burned a drop but the synthetic oil went through the engine like free beer.

The point being my brother did not check for oil consumption and it cost him an engine.

Timothy

Gulp!!!....Thanks for the heads-up......

The deed has already been done - crankcase at the full mark w/ Mobil-1.....Guess I better throw some bottles of my old dino-oil into the storage bays......

....Leave tomorrow for a 1600 mile trip from DC to Michigan & back.....Sounds like I better plan on 100-mile stops for oil checks.......(Geeze, why don't I ever learn to just leave well-enough alone?!!)

SIDEBAR: Finally installed the Airlift rear bags today....My-O-My what a difference!...Now I'm ready for any 18-wheeler bow-wave that the PA Turnpike can throw at me.......

I put in a 1997 dodge pickup and it used about two qts every 1000 miles also leak all over my garage floor. I change back to my caster oil and put a quart of lucas heavy duty oil stabilizer in it no more leaks ore oil lose.sold truck due to trans trouble. I hope you have good trip back. Ps mobile one is what i used when it had forty thousand miles on it sorry i did not say at first James

did we rule out oil bath air filter?

not too long ago I was working on a 64 ford econoline. it was my first made in usa kinda vehicle. I was ALARMED when I found the pool of oil in the air filter.

I took it to a pro wrench and he just laughed at me. knowing that pool of oil was always gave me an uneasy feeling. I sold that 64 econoline and kept my 65 econoline that had a big ole edlebrock carb and no oil bath filter.

paul schuster

Thanks for the interest. Nope no oil bath filter.

Thus far:

1) New PCV valve.

2) New oil cap

3) Changed oil, ran motor flush before change.

4) Oh yea, new starter, plugs, wires and a new exaust manifold gasket; not that this stuff has anything to do with the oil thing.

I hope to put some miles on her this weekend and provide an update.