I have a 1973 Barth 25 footer with a 454 in her, I picked her up last Friday in Kentucky and she got us back to Los Angeles in style. Last night when I was doing some work on her (new battery, starter motor, new alternator, belts and a new exhaust manifold gasket on the starboard side) I found there is a great deal of oil in the air cleaner.

This oil is coming, I think from the breather tube connected to the starboard valve cover. The engine runs strong but there sure is a load of oil in the air cleaner.

Now to the question, are there valve seals that can be replaced without pulling the heads? Am I on the right track?

Help and thank you:

Timothy

How is the pcv valve?

Are you sure that it is not an oil bath filter? If the filter housing is very tall with wire mesh then it is an oil bath filter that is used on trucks. These filters clean better than the paper element so read the air cleaner cover very carefully. Some people change the oil bath air filters over to regular air filters.

As Bill H stated with the PCV valve this is the most likely place if the filter is not of the oil bath design.

Just to be straight on this. I have no way to know if any Chevy installed in a Barth ever came with an oil bath filter. It is something that I am throwing out there. I have seen oil bath filters in some early 70's school buses with Ford motors in them.

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http://www.truckroadservice.com/

[This message has been edited by Bill (edited August 05, 2004).]

Gentlemen:

Thank you, you are just the people I hoped to hear from.

There is no PCV valve I can find. The pipe runs directly from the valve cover into to the air cleaner. Do you think I should add a PCV vlave?

I learned auto mechanics by working on my VW van, as VW was still building vehicles suitable for the war in north Africa when I bought mine, it came with an oil bath air filter, so yea I know what they look like.

My friend, Mr. Thorton, an old Chevy man, while answering my numerous questions referred to my VW as “That Nazi P.O.S.” I often thought a good custom plate for a Porsche would be “NOTZPOS” however I hear there is careful scrutiny of custom plates and I suspect there would be some resistance.

So the point being it sure looks like it is not set up for and oil bath filter and when I picked it up it had a standard paper filter I replaced early on in the trip.

What do you guys think about venting the valve cover directly to the atmosphere? I think 1973 is pretty much pre-smog. By the way the port side valve cover does not appear to have a vent. Should it?

Timothy

I have an idea for you. Go down to the local car show this weekend and look under the hood of a muscle car like a Nova or Camaro with a big block. Adding a PCV valve should not be that big of a deal. Check out what different configurations are in those street machines and pick one that matches yours.

If you do decide to vent to atmosphere may I suggest that you install a vented oil filler cap. This is what I have on my 72 Chevy Nova. It's possible that someone replaced your cap with a non vented one or yours is plugged up!

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[This message has been edited by Bill (edited August 05, 2004).]

Bill:

The vented cap.. I never would have thought to start with something that obvious.

CORRECTION.... I did not know about vented caps... Thank you!

I'll go look at other 454, thanks.


Thank you very much:

Timothy


[This message has been edited by timnlana (edited August 05, 2004).]

Bill H:

PB Rust Blaster.... I did not know about this stuff until I read your post some time back.

I put it on the exaust manifold for five days, each bolt came out effortlessly. Thank you... I've done this job before and the work was hardly effortless.

Thank you:

Timothy


[This message has been edited by timnlana (edited August 05, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by timnlana (edited August 05, 2004).]

hi think rings.

Carl might have nailed it.....especially if the unit has been sitting for a long time....

.....My answer is always: Marvel Mystery Oil!...some in the gas, some in the crankcase.....Can't hurt, and at five bucks, maybe the cheapest solution.....My older Lycoming & Continental air-cooled engines seem to thrive on it.......

Hi Lee and Carl:

Rings, yea I kinda thought we would be looking at the bottom end of the engine one day but I am in no rush.

Carl:

Yep it has been sitting. Tell me about Marvel Mystery Oil!... I have seen it, heck it has been around forever but know nothing about it. What does it do and how do you use it?

Holding the same thought, would this be something to put in the gerneator as well? I have not fired up the generator yet, thought I would soak it with oil first and then hand crank it to make sure it is ok before I fire it up.


Second question, my racer buddies will put a dash of bon-ami in the clyinders to get the rings to seat but I do not know if this works with the oil ring or just the comprression rings. Any thoughts?

Thanks to all:

Timothy



[This message has been edited by timnlana (edited August 06, 2004).]

Tim, does the engine use much oil? Have you done a compression check?

The PCV system is supposed to take care of normal blow-by past the rings. I would not run an engine without a PCV system, for cleanliness alone, if nothing else. However, if there is excessive blow-by, the PCV cannot handle it all. That makes rings a strong possibility.

I have also had good luck with Marvel Mystery oil. In extreme cases, I have poured a cup of Gumout carburettor cleaner in each cylinder and let it sit for a week with the plugs loosely fitted. Then remove the plugs and motor the engine with the distributor disconnected to purge the cylinders. It is important to not have any spark jumping around while there is a carb cleaner fog. Run the engine under very light load for several hours and then change the oil.

My latest experience with Red Line carb cleaner indicates that it is stronger than Gumout, but I haven't used it for carboned up rings. My genset has never run so well as it has since the red line carb cleaner.

I have freed up the Continental lifter knock with Mechanics brand engine cleaner, so it might be good for rings, too..

I thought that the PVC valve was located on the vacuum hose that comes out of the back of the carb. It is located close to the intake manifold. I too have a small hose that runs from the air cleaner to the top of the valve cover.

The PCV valve does indeed run from a valve cover to a vacuum line on the carb...That accomplishes the POSITIVE VENTILATION part of the PCV's function.....The other line, from the other valve cover, is merely a static breather to avoid pressure build-up, and is routed back into aircleaner, unlike like the days of old, when it was just routed overboard into the ambient air. (Breather line usually has a filter element inside of air cleaner housing)

Timothy, Forgot to mention:

Do a Google Search for Marvel Mystery Oil and you'll read lots of info....some think its a miracle product...others think it's snake oil....you'll have to decide....

Since it's a detergent product in addition to a lubricant, it's important NOT to overdose with it, as that could interfere with proper lubrication & surface coating....

For me, I use 50% of recommended doses in the fuel tanks every other fill-up....I think it helps keeps the top end clean, including the carb......(years ago, before close-tolerance engines & high-tech oil, Marvel made an Inverse Injection device that used engine vacuum to suck MMO from a jar into manifold at about 3-5 drops a minute.)

Since my 454 uses a little less than one quart per 1k miles, I use MMO as my last quart to add before oil change....I like to think it cleans & scrubs the innards just before I change oil & filter. Now that I'm switching to Mobil-1, I'll probably stop using MMO in the case and just use it in the fuel........

THREAD DRIFT: As long as I'm switching to Mobil-1, does anyone have a reason to wince if I switch-over the Onan 4k, 300hr generator? Less inventory to carry, etc.

Gentlemen:

Thank you, armed with your VERY HELPFUL information I am working on the Barth today.

My wife calls the Barth "Bart the fart" and my friend Bob calls her "Marilyn", any thoughts on the naming are appreciated.

As time permits, I am working on a delivery narrative (story with pictures) and will post the story on this site next week.

I will post updates as the work moves along.

Once again Gentlemen, my sincerest thanks:

Timothy