Hey you buch of sleep heads, wake up! Looks like touring season is not quie here for you northerners-buuur! Dipping into the mid 30's at night in deep Dixie but beautiful 70's by day.

Oh yeah, this is the "Tech" channel. Errrah, I've searched the archives for folks who've had their 454 water pumps go out. Not the one that runs your faucet but the one on the motor. I haven't had any maintainance or repairs to do in the past two weeks so now I'm looking for trouble.

I figured I'd get a total shut down from over heating if the impellers went "kapuut" but are there any warning signs of impending doom (like an rmp related groan)or leaking coolant? If the 454 water pump were to need replacing, how big a deal is it? Can it be done without removing the radiator? Either this never happens or no one as talked of it.

What sez you my wonderful Barth wrench turning guru's?

dixie dog (aka/chicken little)

The impellers usually don't go kaput, but the bearings and seals do. About the only way an impeller can fail is to loosen its grip on the shaft or be made of sheet metal.

Get it really hot and look at the shaft with a bright light and a mirror. Any water coming out at all means it is starting to go. Wiggle the shaft while it is hot and feel for looseness and look to see if you are inducing a leak. Also wiggle when cold to feel for looseness.

Replacing it is no fun, but can be done without removing the radiator. Lay several layers of carpet over the engine to lie on. Use a 1/4 inch ratchet in small spaces. The hardest part is that short little hose on top. It is such a pain to replace that I used a steel reinforced marine hose last time, in hopes that it will last forever.

An Edelbrock or Moroso high volume pump is a good idea. Some time ago, Trailer Life magazine did a tow test on the Grapevine and found a significant temp reduction with the Edelbrock pump.

If your pump is high time, it might be a good idea to replace it at your ocnvenience, rather than an inconvenient and expensive time and place. My crap always fails on the way home Sunday night when I have to work the following Monday. Or Friday night on the way out of town.

I just replaced my 454 water pump. I replaced it with a high volume type. I didn't have any problems with the replacement. You do not have to remove the radiator. The things that you should look for is a leak or noise coming from the pump. You have to set the alternator off to the side. The belts have to be taken off. You will see that when you get into the replacement of the pump. I would replace the hoses if they are very old.

Well, Thanks,

After my 100 mile road test the other day, I was letting her idle in "Park" as my normal cool-down SOP.

I noticed a subtle, "Homp..Homp..Homp..Homp" sound at the rate of apprx. 120 beats per minute and she idles at apprx 1000-1200 RPMs. I first thought by drive shaft must have picked up a a limb or something, then realized, "hey fool, you're in "Park"". So, knowing "Chicken Little" as I do, the imagination started running off the chart again, even though I could not smell or see a coolant loss.
Like so many others, my greatest fear is a stand still, one inch p/min., eight lane traffic grid-lock near some big concrete city in late August. This rig never has appreciated standing in long lines for long periods, so I'm trying to prepare for hot weather running (extra fans, passenger wheelwell deflector, forcing all available air thru radiator and rams, etc.

I'm going now to check for wobbly pump shaft. This sounds like another skint knuckles, PM must do, for POM. ;-/

don in Dixie

EMP Stewart Components, The performance products division of Engineered Machined Products makes the slickest external water pump I have ever seen. It hooks in the lower radiator hose and requires a 5-inch straight stretch. It draws a mere 8 amps to spin the billet aluminum impeller. It is a mere 6-inches long and 4-1/2" in diameter. It increases the water flow at idle 300%. It pumps up to 55 gallons per minute and should be enough to cool as a stand-alone pump. I did not spend much time trying to find their site address, but you could contact chris.shelton@primedia.com for such. Looks to be the answer to MANY problems. It is featured on page 170 of the June, 2005 Street Rodder magazine.

Dale

[This message has been edited by Smith Brother (edited April 23, 2005).]

I would guess one could make a BUCK or two bill h. if they invented a RED FLAG that would pop up on the dash that said, I AM GETTING READY TO QUIT. Don't you think?

Dale

I looked at EMP Stewart's website.
I would guess that RV puller jockeys drool when looking at his wares. He had the cooling system components to lust after. The elec pump is tempting at 4 bills but installation was not given in great enough detail for a non-street rod guy, Moi.

Dale, is you RV'g RED FLAG flashing? :-/
I detected a Freudian slip.

quote:

Originally posted by Smith Brother:
I would guess one could make a BUCK or two bill h. if they invented a RED FLAG that would pop up on the dash that said, I AM GETTING READY TO QUIT. Don't you think?

Dale

Yup. One of those red flags would save me a lot on the stuff I replace prematurely as a precaution.

dogill, No RED FLAGS HERE, just commenting on bill h's comment, that's all. Over 30 years in the rental business people have commented, IT JUST QUIT, and I have learned to say, WELL IT'S NOT GOING TO WAVE A RED FLAG, I'M ABOUT TO QUIT.

Just got around to this post and it really brought back memories of last years trip to Talledega. The first day was perfect but the second day the noise started and we checked it out and found the water pump on it's way out. The fan wiggled way too much and after stoppimg for a new pump amd a set of good tools we tried to make the track to fix it but we didn't make it more than twenty miles down the road when it siezed up and we were dead in the water. A tow from Adams got us in where we could work on it and we were on the road in under 2 hours. This involved a very good wrench on board and some of the greatest people you could ever find in Alabama, so instead of a nightmare it was a simple inconvenience. The radiator didn't have to come out, but having the coach on the hook of a tow truck and removing the doghouse made life a lot easier. I guess I'd say how good are you and what kind of facilities do you have available? I got very lucky, and I'd never want to do this on my own. Just put a new one in, along with belts and hoses, and breath easier on down the road.

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Dan & Suzy Z
'81 Euro 28

"are there any warning signs of impending doom (like an rmp related groan)or..."

Chevy water pumps have a "weep hole" at 11 o"clock (facing the fan) which "weeps" (leaks) coolant when the seals start to go. Seal loss is the first step to ruined pump, and usually gives audible warning.

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"You are what you drive" - Clint Eastwood

just got back from a total 250mi trip. after getting hot (tiny TN backroads, 15mph curves) around 50mi into the trip it started whistling. Next day started fine , no noise, no drips. Then again after about one hour driving that whistling noise from under the hood, especially audible when "cruising" or sitting still. could it be the waterpump? made it home fine, not running hot.

quote:

Originally posted by Marvin+Doris:
it started whistling. Next day started fine , no noise, no drips. Then again after about one hour driving that whistling noise from under the hood, especially audible when "cruising" or sitting still. could it be the waterpump?

It could be a belt squeal, too. Does it do it with the air on and off? How about steering? How about electrical load?

Squirt a little water on the belts and pulleys when it is whistling. If your hearing is good, try to locate the sound with a tube. Watch out for the fan.

Adjust belts. Remove belts one at a time. Alternators can make noise, too. Dry rear bushing or front bearing can make a high pitch sound, or short brushes can do a high frequency chatter as they vibrate on the slip rings. Sometimes a long screwdriver held against the alternator with the handle in your ear can help. They sell stethoscopes for this, too.

If it's the radiator cap it will be pretty loud and start and stop instantly, as opposed to "turning up the volume" gradually. It won't have to be really hot to pop the cap, but it will be on the hot side of the gauge. This happened to us on the way to Nicks, and I limped into a station and let her cool down, filled up the radiator, and had no more problems.

If you're sporting a clutch fan, might be a good time to give it a good check over too. A grenading clutch fan will usually take out the radiator and cause emotional pain too.