I want to remove the oil fill pipe on my 85 Regal P32 chassis. It's about three to four feet long and goes from just behind the door in front of the radiator, to the oil fill hole in the valve cover on the passenger side of the 454. As those of you who have this arrangement know, it's a major pain in the butt to even get a quart of oil in position to pour let alone get it to go in the engine. Parts of the pipe are just about horizontal. The pipe is about 1 1/2" in diameter and where it goes into the hole in the valve cover there is a rubber ring that the pipe fits inside of. Before I start to destroy it, is there a trick to getting the pipe out of the rubber ring? I've sort of wiggled it around but it doesn't appear to want to come out easily.
Jim
(aka Tere's assistant)

It will come out more easily if the engine is well warmed up. Use a little silicone spray to make things slip better. Wear gloves, because, when it does come, it will be sudden, and your hands could use a little protection.

My own philosophy is that both fill and dipstick should be under the doghouse. This allows you to check belts, hoses, leads, etc, as you do the oil service. And, if you have a chrome air cleaner lid, you can smile at yourself.

Bill, I want to do the same on the dip stick. How would you go about doing that, i.e. making sure it was the right length etc.
Thanks
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Jim and Tere:
Bill, I want to do the same on the dip stick. How would you go about doing that, i.e. making sure it was the right length etc.
Thanks
Jim

On boats and RVs, I just go to the dealer and buy a new tube, O ring, and dipstick from a regular car or truck. The only thing that matters is that the tube fit your engine, that is, it has an ear to mount on the exhaust stud. The dipstick may or may not be correct, but I don't even check at first, as I usually cut the tube shorter to suit my own personal preferences. I like the dipstick low and out of the way. BTW, allow as much exhaust clearance as you can. I have seen broken and badly discolored and de-tempered dipsticks from exhaust heat. A little thermal sleeving is good, too.

Once the tube is mounted, I drain out all the hot oil and let it sit. Then, I pour in 5 quarts and let it sit. That is the "Low" or "Add" mark on the dipstick. I then pour in another quart to establish the "Full" mark.

Here is a scan from the GM MH page, dealing with extended oil stick tubes. PM me with your e mail address if you want a better copy.

Thanks, Bill. Getting the pipe out was relatively easy. Mine had a section of rubber hose connecting two sections of pipe. Tere was able to get a good pull on the section going to the valve cover by sitting in the passenger chair while I held up the dog house lid. OK--yeah I'm getting a lot of mileage out of this bad back!!
I'll tackle the tube next. A previous owner had installed a dual remote filtration system made by Amsoil. Some notes he left indicated that this increased the sump capacity to eight quarts. I'll follow GM's directions to verify. You ought to see these bypass filters. The big one takes almost a quart and a half to fill it up. It's really huge. the small one is still over 6" long and 4" or so in diameter. Guess I have a clean engine.

Well, this is weird. The dip stick assembly as shown in the attachment to Bill's drawing, is exactly what we have. But the previous owner wrote in permanent marker on the access door surround on the front of the Regal "Sump capacity is 8 quarts". The two filters he installed are huge and along with hoses, use an additional 2 quarts. I drained the engine, let it sit for an hour, removed both oil filters and let that sit for an hour, filled both filters and installed them, and filled the engine. To get the oil level to come up to "full" on the dip stick, it took 8 quarts plus two for the filters. The attachment from GM said "6 quarts plus one for the filter for a total of 7" My total is 10!! Is that possible? I've driven the thing many miles using the existing dip stick, and it always shows about 1/2 quart low and I leave it that way. In fact, with the 8quarts for the sump and 2 quarts for the filters and hoses for the filters, it shows about 1/2 quart low.
Now I'm worried that we have too much oil in it. Is it possible that some of the big blocks had 8 quart sumps?
HELP!

Hey guys and gals!! Somebody out there has to have a thought on my "8 quart sump"?? My son-in-law's thought is 'leave it alone' or 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'. Being rather curious, that's a little difficult for me.

Soon after buying the Euro I went through this same dilemma. Someone ,[billh?] pointed me to a service bulletin from GM that claimed a lot of 454s went out the door with improper dip sticks. The recommendation was to drain oil, add 5 quarts, and etch the dipstick at this level as the "add" line. Add one more quart, and etch this level as the "full" line. Now PLEASE don't do this on my advice, because I'm working from memory and may be off a little on specifics, but it gives you something to search for and investigate. Until I found out about this I always dumped 8 or 9 quarts in her and she spit out about 2 and leveled off there for the rest of the change cycle. My dipstick is now marked and a 1500 Talledega trip will use maybe a quart max, compared to 3 quarts or more when I used the old dipstick marks. Hope this helps.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim and Tere:
Is it possible that some of the big blocks had 8 quart sumps?

I have never seen a factory one. There is not room for a bigger sump on the P30 chassis without going deeper, longer or wider. I have seen all three in other applications, but they were all homemade or aftermarket. Some boat pans have full-length sumps.

My suggestion is to get underneath, make a poster board template of your pan, and then match it up to a standard 454 pan. If it is a match, you have the standard pan as mentioned in the attachment above.

Another possibility is that there might be a part number stamped somewhere. Perhaps going to a dealer and looking at a new pan would help on telling you where to look.

Excess oil in the pan costs mileage, power and can aerate the oil. The 502 in my boat has a windage tray and crank scraper to keep oil (even the right amount) in the pan for that reason. Motor homes do not need anything that drastic, because the correct oil level keeps the rods from scooping oil. An overfilled pan will cause the rods to fling oil up on the cylinder walls where it will get past the rings and foul the plugs and carbon things up. You are not at such a dramatic point, but the fact that the top if your pan is stock, follow the attachment above.

I do know that a small block Chevy will foul its plugs badly if double filled. I also know that a Hartzell prop will feather if the engine is underfilled.

A lot of engines will use up some of the extra oil right away if overfilled, like Danny said. But that extra oil being burned is just carboning things up, which is not good.

I'd bet a blender of Susan's Margaritas that you have the standard pan.

I talked to the previous owner who is a very accomplished helicopter pilot/mechanic/vp of operations and he said that the only way he could get the oil to read full on the dip stick was to put 8 quarts in the sump. My son-in-law has a 454 in his Camaro and the sump is 7 1/2" deep. Mine is 9" deep. I'll do the poster board template as you suggested and see if I can find some part numbers on it. Funny thing is that if I fill it to just below the full line, it uses very little oil. Coming back from Arizona in '05, maybe 1/2 quart in 1000 miles at a steady 65 mph. And the plugs show absolutely no signs of fouling. I've looked on the 'net and found nothing that said GM ever made a factory sump that took 8 quarts. But when I put 6 quarts in after filling both oil filters, it didn't even show on the bottom of the dip stick. Does anybody remember the GM service bulletin that talked about the bad dip sticks that Danny mentioned?

quote:

Does anybody remember the GM service bulletin that talked about the bad dip sticks that Danny mentioned?

They allude to it in the attachment above. I am not sure they came right out and admitted they were screwing up. I know of several MH owners who had a new engine installed by GM because of the dipstick issue.

As far as the Camaro goes, they require a smaller pan for the BBC. I have read of both 4 and 6 qt 454 pans for Camaros and Chevelles, but have never owned one.

If this engine is a 454 "High Deck", would that mean that it's sump would be of greater capacity? In looking over past discussions on this subject(high decks) I'm not sure that all P30s had the 'high deck' or as some call it 'tall deck'. I'll try to find the block number.

If nothing else i suppose that the next time you change oil you could drop the pan after draining and check to see just how far the dipstick extends into the pan and judge how full the pan is at your high and low marks.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim and Tere:
If this engine is a 454 "High Deck", would that mean that it's sump would be of greater capacity? In looking over past discussions on this subject(high decks) I'm not sure that all P30s had the 'high deck' or as some call it 'tall deck'. I'll try to find the block number.

The tall deck was not normally put in P30s. Even if it were, the block mounts and pan are exactly the same. The only difference is that the head surface is up a little higher, to accommodate pistons with longer skirts. They sit in the chassis exactly the same.

quote:

Originally posted by Shadow man:
If nothing else i suppose that the next time you change oil you could drop the pan after draining and check to see just how far the dipstick extends into the pan and judge how full the pan is at your high and low marks.

That would be ideal, but removing the pan from a P30 is a tough job. Engine must be raised and tilted.

That approach, however, could be done with a spare pan. The pan could be set up at the same angle as the one in the MH, and 6 qts of fluid poured in. A measurement of so many inches up from the bottom would be taken, using a position similar to what a dipstick would read. Then, a long rod would be stuck down the tube in the MH until it bottoms out, and the oil levels compared.

Or, even simpler, a measurement up from the bottom could be established in a P30 with a known pan and compared to yours. I will be helping with a Memorial day service today, but I will be jacking the coach for some suspension work later in the week, and will level the coach and take a reading then if no one else comes up with a reading.