QUOTE: "TO Bill H: I noticed you said "almost" trouble free. I now understand the cause of "dieseling" upon genset shutdown and understand there is an aftermarket fix or two for same (expensive sillynoid switch or fuel cutoff valve). In your opinion, does dieseling hurt anything, did your Koler 7K ever do it, and if so, what was/is the cure?
I had a complete tuneup done but it still diesels @ shutdown, even after no-load cool down running period.
TIA,
Don"
--------------------------------------------


Don, I haven't experienced that problem on my Kohler, but it could be ignition timing, low octane gas, overheating, or carboned up cylinder heads. A compression check might shed some light on the carbon. I have had to decarbonize Onans before. Be sure it has the timing correctly set. Is the throttle free and returning fully when the genset is shut off? Does it diesel when it is cold, or just really hot? The solenoid sounds like a good idea. Here's something simple to try: How about shutting off the electric fuel pump and letting the carb run dry? Try some Red Line fuel system cleaner. It might clean the carb and loosen up some carbon in the heads. Make sure the external throttle and governor linkage is free.

Today's trivia: Anyone here been around the M47 M48A1 or M103 tank? They had a "degasser" solenoid that cut off the fuel in the idle passage of the carb to avoid dieseling.

Bill:

Can't help you with tank engines but if you want the specs for the 120 mm cannon on the M1, I'm your man.

As the receiver is a meter cube of solid steel it may take our Barths a bit over the acceptable gross weight but facing aft it will I feel do much to address the tailgating I see is so prevalent among drivers here in Los Angeles.

Timothy

Bill: Thanks for addressing my concern. Tony, I mean Ron (shucked his true nickname when he got to be a big shot rocketman) said you wuz de man. So happens, I have an Abrams tank mechanic in the family (Camp Shelby is across the street).

The cylinder heads were carboned but my guru got it out(he told me how but I'm skeert to tell). He adjusted timing and carb, which he said it sorely needed. He recommended a fuel stablizer/cleaner (SEA-FOAM) which I now have in both tanks as he said it was good for the 454 too. Of course, I am running the cheapest gasoline I can find. The points were slightly pitted and replaced as well as plugs, air filter, and condenser. He said I had a lot of carbon but now gone and shouldn't have a reoccurance if I continue to use the fuel additive.

This fellow is listed in the 20 year old Koler Owner's Manual and goes by the book. It diesels only when really hot. The Manual said to take the load off and give the unit a 15 minute cooling down period before shutting down and this "sometimes" works.

The Koler factory solenoid switch "tweak" came about after customer complaints and is a $400 add-on these days. Shutting off the electric fuel pump would seem logical but would it cause a priming problem on re-start? We didn't discuss throttle/gov linkage but he said he went thru everything with a fine toothed comb. I've been knowing this old guy since high school (near 40 years)and trust his work. I just hate to spend $400 if there's an equally reliable cheap fix.

My big question is, "Does this 15-20 seconds of dieseling (seems like 15 minutes) do any internal damage"? It sounds like I left my crecent wrench, pry bar, ballpeen hammer, and a few sockets in my overalls while in the cloths dryer.

BTW: my initials spell dog and that's usually how I sign off so don't be offended.

Thanks,
dog

quote:

Originally posted by dogill:
Shutting off the electric fuel pump would seem logical but would it cause a priming problem on re-start?
My big question is, "Does this 15-20 seconds of dieseling (seems like 15 minutes) do any internal damage"? It sounds like I left my crecent wrench, pry bar, ballpeen hammer, and a few sockets in my overalls while in the cloths dryer.

dog

Don, it osunds like you have a good genset guy.

I know detonation/preignition is terrible under load, but not sure about at idle, though.

As far as the fuel pump shutoff, a switch to the dash would allow you to kill the pump for shutdown and run the pump before starting to fill the float bowl. The world is full of people who run their portable generators dry at shutdown.

BTW, how DID he decarbonize the heads?

I'm great at reading advice, and trying new and strange things. I once read an article about decarbonizing crudded-up engines, by racing them while pouring water through the carburetor as fast as the engine would take it.

Tried it in my '51 hudson with some success, and a friend's '53 Chev that had never gone more than 10 miles at a time, and which, though low mileage, wasn't running for a darn.

It poured out white smoke (steam?) that blanketed the neighborhood for the whole block. Got him in dutch with all his neighbors, but the sucker ran like a champ afterwards.

I wonder it would work on a genny, though, with modern engines and modern unleaded fuels, carbon isn't as much of a problem as it used to be.

BTW - John Geraghty , erstwhile Trailer life performance guru, became a proponent of water injection when fuel quality declined, before manufacturers got wise about how to make horsepower on poor gas.

He said it would clean out carbon, and keep the engine clean. I can attest to the latter. I put water injection on a '76 Dodge van, did a valve job just shy of 90K miles, and only found surface deposits in the head and on the pistons. No scale.


[This message has been edited by olroy (edited September 01, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by olroy (edited September 01, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by olroy (edited September 02, 2004).]

Oh, wow. Another Hudson guy! I had one of those. What a car. V8 drivers never knew what happened to them.

Bill: olroy hit it on the head. H2o after the pistons had time to get good and hot. I shuttered to think about it but as it turns out, after talking to a few old hands, it must be a common old time remedy. My genset man said black smoke fogged the neighborhood for a few seconds after introducing the cold water, and then ran clean and smooth with no exhaust smoke.
Mentioning this to another mechanic friend yesterday afternoon who is a restoration specialist, he allowed having used this method and told of seeing fairly large chunks of carbon blown out of some exhaust pipes.
I'm a restaurant owner and we've been using ice cubes to break up carbon on hot grill tops for easy cleaning for years. Just never imagined using in hot motors.

dog

I saw my first water treatment around 1946. My father being a Buick dealer that had worked his way up from a GREASE MONKEY was doing it. The demand for a new car was high and not all could afford so a lot of different tactics were used to freshen up the engine. At one time he had lined up 116 new engines with trannys attached, and a waiting list to have one installed. The rear diff. was checked as was the shocks, brakes, and steering. Those were some fun days, but life goes on. He had a coffee can full of oil and leather material that was used when someones rods were knocking and just needed to get home. New car showings were a big deal and a dealer could lose his dealership if he showed a car to early. We picked up our first car every year in Chicago and during the night drove back to Bloomington, IL so as to hide it. Our garage at home had paper over the windows to hide same too. As a kid of 8 I could tell you all you ever wanted to know about a BUICK. LIKE FATHER, LIKE SON. We had a two story garage and the second floor was wood. A freight elevator took us up, and I can assure you today it would not pass gov. specs. The sounds off the wood floor when we took a creeper and ran and FLOPPED like we were on a sled was so neat. The old days were fun, but I like today better. SORRY DAVE for getting off track. hehe

You're never off track Dale. I think one of the most interesting things here, are the personal stories. If you don't believe me search this website on "Yuma" and you're probably read about my dad building the Imperial Dam about three times.

And, I have talked to many of you individually and there is a ton of history among the folks who visit here, some of it "world changing", right Olroy?

------------------

You got that right, Dave
Roy

To get off on another drift that involves our flyboy members, dear ol dad used to tell me about WW2 fighters using H2O injectors to give them a critical boost in combat situations or just to get them back across the ditch. Anybody know first hand about this?

------------------
Dan & Suzy Z
'81 Euro 28

Yep, it was used in WWII turbo or supercharged engines in aircraft.......

But before we get to far into this, there's a BIG difference between water INJECTION and water INGESTION, designed to thermo-shock carbon deposits......

The web is full of sites that talk about water injecting aircraft engines...interesting reading.....and read carefully before pulling-off the ole 454 aircleaner and dragging out the garden hose

The purpose of water injection is to control combustion and heat in order to prevent detonation.The Merlin engine that powered the P-51 Mustang and a host of British WWII aircraft, operated with a lot of supercharger boost. Without water injection, it wouldn't tolerate full throttle in the thicker atmosphere at low altitudes, without detonation severe enough to destroy the engine.

When lead disappeared from auto gasoline, it was a problem for high compression engines of the '60s & earlier. Water injection could bridge the gap.

Water injection systems are still available, but most of us can get along without it in current engines. In my experience, it tends to require more regular attention than most of us want to pay.

Lee's right about the difference between water "injection" and water "ingestion."

I don know nuttin about this stuff, but I will throw this in. I know D.O.G. that if you look Kohler up in the dictionary you see a picture of a toilet and your mechanic. However, my story is that I was having tremendous trouble with my Onan 5.5. Just wouldn't stay running and missed while it was. I had two RV guys, (certified) look at it and still had problems.

Well I bit the bullet and took it to the Cummins/Onan place in St. Paul. Those boys aren't cheap. Cost me around $275 when he was done. That was 1 1/2 years ago and today when I wanted to get that air going. One press on the button and voilà it ran smooooth. I had the air and the Oreck vacuum going and no problems. So sometimes it's worth taking it too the experts. By the way all you guys with the old Onan's like me. The experts at Onan told me that my 1985 5.5 was the best they come and they would take 5 new gensets for even one of mine. That was good to hear.

------------------

quote:

Originally posted by davebowers:
I know D.O.G. that if you look Kohler up in the dictionary you see a picture of a toilet and your mechanic.

Huh?
Acknowledging ebonics, a 280 lb. (no fat/ sense of humor)Polish mechanic request elaboration regarding the above water closet/mechanic pictionary image. :-)
Barthing dog