The old R-12 system on my 38 Regency has a leak that can't be found. Even with dye. Has anyone converted to R-134A?

If you are talking about roof air, I just dealt with the same issue on my 35' Regency. Since the compressor was still good, the estimate to repair the leak and recharge the system was $250 - $300. The repair estimate was more than 50% of replacement cost. I replaced the unit with a new Coleman Mach 3PS from Camping World (they presently are on sale). I now have a new, more efficient unit with a two year warranty instead of a repaired 20 year old unit with a 90 day warranty.

On dash AC for about $ 15 a can you can buy on ebay.com freon named Maxi-Frig
and at this price you can add it every month. I put it in my old Mercedes and it really works.

There is a product called Enviro Safe 12 or something like that. It is a carbon based product that is quite benign to the environment. It works very well. Better than R134, or R12. It is only $7 or $8 a can and the can goes half again farther than the either R134 or R12. It took 5 cans for my Barth.

It cannot be mixed with the other freon though. You would need to have your system evacuated, and have enviro safe 12 put in. They have a two types of stop leak for this also. One works on metal the other works on rubber (neopreme). The shop that evacuated my system put both types of stopleak in, by mistake. The cans look the same, which is the reason for the mistake. The result is that the air coming out of the dash is quite cool, but not cold. Its not bad, but I plan to have it evacuated again and all the space devoted to freon (enviro12). This stuff also doesn't react with moisture so you don't have to ever replace the dryer. It also works under lower pressures and takes less hp to turn the compressor.

I never needed the stop leak, but got it 'just in case'. In your case, you should get both types since you don't know where the leak is. The regular cans of enviro12 have a dye incorporated anyway.

I have a brother in Nevada that swears by this stuff. He uses it in his 45ft Eagle bus, with great results. Nothing but the best goes into that bus of his, and he is quite knowledgeable about such things. He told me I needed to get the mix right, and it will work great.

What I don't understand is why this stuff hasn't caught on more. It is a perfect replacement for R12 systems, and is cheap and more effective, as well as environmently friendly.

I hope this helps.

I believe, there my be something with the legal issue on Safe12, and Maxi-Frig , but since it works, I don't want to know
I still stay with the Maxi-Frig, that doesn't need evacuation, and 1 can made my car AC working perfectly. The cans on ebay are coming with dye but it mostly coolant, and my leak is so small, that putting dye 3 times, checking with ultraviolet, and electronic detector didn't find it, so I am putting a can every season. With the system overhaul the drier supposed to be replaced, because it collects not only water, but also dirt, and old oil. If you put new compressor without replacing dryer it'll void the warranty.

I don't believe there is a legal issue with the enviro12 at all. There were legal issues with conversions to R134. e.g., the fittings on the compressors (and elsewhere in the system if applicable) had to be changed to the R134 type, but that was because of the possibility of mixing the two types of (incompatible) freon. There were other legal issues also, but that had to do with illegal R12. If you evacuate your system, you cannot legally put the old R12 into another system. There is also 'shady' R12 out there that has been brought into the country illegally, and locally 'recycled' R12 that is being sold as new, as well as other scams. Alot of the illegal products out there say they can be mixed with the original freon. Some of it is actually dangerous.

Enviro12 is legal. I wouldn't use it if it weren't, or if I thought something was 'shady' about it. It has the EPA approval, and seems like such a good solution. The only downside is that the system needs to be evacuated as enviro12 is not compatible with R12 or R134, but this isn't a big deal.

Not too many years ago I've been working in auto shop and on good days we have dump several hundreds of pound od Freon 12 into the atmosphere. It was legal and EPA approved. Now dumping 4 oz of R12 is a crime. So maybe you have respect for these clowns gupman, but I certainly don't.
Vacuuming AC system maybe isn't big deal for you, but try to ask average Barth owner, that pays several hundred $ (in CA at least) for it.

Lets keep the discussion to the issue at hand. How you (or I) feel about the EPA is not the issue. 30 years ago we didn't know R12 was damaging to the ozone, so dumping it was not illegal.

I paid $74 to have my Barth's AC evacuated and 5 cans of enviro12 installed. I supplied the enviro12. I live in Northern Virginia, not exactly a low cost area to live. The cost of 5 cans of enviro12 is less than a single can of R12, so I looked for a different solution.

The purpose of these postings is to suggest
solutions to problems with AC. Converting to R134 is costly, and usually results in less cooling. Adding R12 is becoming very expensive. R12 'substitutes' are less effective generally, and sometimes illegal. Enviro12 is both legal and effective (I have no financial interest in the product). I am just happy with the results and surprised it isn't more widely known.

Let's keep this thread on the subject of AC.

Lucky you gupman But let me tell you another story: on the car I mentioned, that I was able to make AC working with about $10 material cost - the fellow, that sold the car to me - in the period of 2 years spend $1800 (eighteen hundred) on compressor exchange, AC service, and refilling with R12. That was in Louisiana. Bottom line: the system still didn't work!
From what I experienced, they are at least 2 professions on this World, that no matter either they do a perfect job, or total screw-up, still get paid the same. These professions are automotive mechanics, and doctors.
Don't know if the Enviro-Safe, and the stuff you mentioned is the same, but just found the article http://www.cogentregs.com/cogentregs/ViewOverview.cfm/OverviewID/724/PgSty le/Search/ViewOverview.htm saying, that some refrigerants are being checked (as I suspected)
Now .. about that sticking on the subject. .. Don't you think, that we can at least try to prove, that Barth owners are more intelligent, than others

[This message has been edited by Kajtek1 (edited September 08, 2002).]

I'm not sure why you think I am lucky, but I hope you are right.

The link you provided was almost 2 years old and only was identifying products they had questions about. I did some checking with the EPA, and in fact the product I mentioned is now illegal to use. It wasn't then, but it is now. I don't know if the product you use is also illegal. I couldn't tell from the EPA's list of disapproved products. There is however a list of approved products that folks might be interested in. It is:

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/lists/mvacs.html

I intend to look at the list of approved products and switch to the one that best meets my needs. Switching to R134a is a last resort for me.

A close reading of enviro safe 12's website doesn't actually say it is EPA approved, but it implies that it is. This is the source I was using. Oh well, if it appears too good to be true, there's a reason...