Don't think anyone has mentioned bell cranks. Super Steer makes a very nice one with tapered roller bearings instead of the sleeve bushings on the factory ones. Don't get rebuilt ones. The super steers are pricey but you get what you pay for.Also check the bell crank arm for play. I'm a safety nut and I'd rather drive an ugly but safe unit than a pretty one that might kill me.

P.S. One could say, (and I'm one of them), that there are no ugly Barths!

P.S. One could say, (and I'm one of them), that there are no ugly Barths!

Yup. Got a pair. I mumbled about them some time ago. They are great, but the other stuff should come first.

Of course, if you are sure you are going to buy them, it would save an alignment to buy them before you have the alignment done, as their installation will necessitate alignment.

Dear Bill h and others,
Thanks for the very valuable input above! As a result of your discussion, I dropped the idea of installing an on-board air compressor for the front and back air bags. Instead, I have ordered the front air bag extension kit as suggested by bill h. And, I purchased a small Campbell Hausfeld battery-operated inflator which proves to work quite well for setting the air bags. For the tires, it would either take forever, or perhaps never be able to inflate to 70#; (but it could be useful in an emergency). Price just about $40 at Home Depot.
Next, with tires properly inflated for load, coach fully loaded, front air bags at 70# and rear at 40#, I measured front Ride Height to be 4 1/2," the same from side to side. But, Rear Ride Height is a very tall 7 1/2" right and 8" left.

Question #1: Is this tall Rear Ride Height a problem which I need to address? What is the rule/standard for Rear Ride Height?

Question #2: I also have some insecurity about how to measure the Front Ride Height. The picture shows it to be the metal-to-metal space between the lower control arm and the cross member, ignoring a small rubber bumper. But, my rubber bumper is a giant 3" tall. The space from metal to metal is 4 1/2". And, the space left from the top of the bumper to the top cross member is then just 1 1/2" because the bumper is 3" tall. Does this seem correct? Do I ignore the large bumper?
best regards and thanks from,
Allan Pacela of Solvang, CA

Dear bill h,
I see from old postings that you something called a Rear Ride Height Chart.
Would you be so kind as to email or fax it to:
apacela@pmc.us
or fax to 805-456-3893.
Many thanks and best regards from,
Allan Pacela of Solvang, CA

quote:

Originally posted by Allan:
Dear bill h,
I see from old postings that you something called a Rear Ride Height Chart.
Would you be so kind as to email or fax it to:
apacela@pmc.us
or fax to 805-456-3893.
Many thanks and best regards from,
Allan Pacela of Solvang, CA

I think the charts are on Mike's site, but will send them just to be sure. Mike and I are singin' form the same hymnbook here. All rubber bumpers in front are a little different, but the 1 1/2 inches is close. Once you have the metal to metal measurement correct, you can just use whatever pressure it takes to repeat without getting underneath.

As for the rear, I wonder if you need to look at the picture and recheck. Rear ride height can affect caster and consequently, handling.

Allan & all:
I've been out-of-town for the weekend, and
missed all the talk, but one thing that has
bothered me since your first posting was the
weight of your coach, which you said it was
13,000#. I retired in 1987. and am not up-to-
date on the later chassis, but normally a 137" chassis had a max. GVWR of 12,300#. Maybe they made the 14,000# GVWR chassis avaiable on the 137" chassis in the later years. Does your coach have a 14,000# GVWR rating and does it have 8/19.5 tires? If not, maybe Barth added extra leafs in the Rear Springs. I don't remember how many leafs were in the G50 Springs, nor could I find it in my 1985 Service Parts Catalog,
but that rear ride height seems like someone
added extra leafs to the rear springs.

Jake Jacobson

Dear Jake and Bill h,
At Bill's suggestion, I went under the coach again and rechecked the rear ride hight. It is definitely 7 1/2" from the axle tube to the bottom of the frame. There are large air bags inserted between the axle tube and frame. The springs have four leafs and two spacers (the same thickness as the springs) at the bottom. The springs are sitting higher at each end and lower in the middle. I note that the frame itself is straight from the front of the coach and then has a designed-in curve upwards near the rear wheels. Yes, the coach plate says GVWR of 14,800. The tires are 225/70R19.5 with 19.5x6 rims. I am now checking the frame angle and I measure either 4 degrees high in the rear or 1 degree high in the rear depending on which way I park it in my garage (my garage floor slants). The total front weight is 5050# and the total rear is 7810#. The overall total was 12890#
Question: The ride hight seems tall as it is at the far left end of the chart. Is this caused by the insertion of the rear air bags.
Is this a problem or a safety issue? The Barth does appear to ride unusually high in the rear when you look at it on the road. On the other hand, that's a "sportey" look and gives more rear clearance for road dips.
To all: your input is very valuable to me as I try to understand my Barth!
best regards,
Allan Pacela of Solvang

Have you tried letting the air bags down to 10 lbs., or less? My recollection is the specs cal for a minimum of 3 or 5 lbs.

I have a 33' Regal SE with a tag. Handwritten notes in my paperwork say 70 lbs. for the Firestone Air-Rides on my drive axle. The book says 90 lbs. max. I leave my tag axle air bags at 40 lbs., & adjust the Air Aides to obtain the proper height at my usual load.

If reducing the air pressure doesn't bring the ride height down, it suggests a problem with the springs.

Try letting some air out, load it to your normal traveling weight, take it for a test drive, and re-measure.

This stuff isn't rocket science, and it's easy to become obsessed with micrometric precision. Everything changes moment by moment when you're moving, so your setting is only precise when you're standing still on the level.

Probably not a safety issue, unless you're taking corners like a sports car.

My alignment guy got the front height correct and leveled the rear with the air bags until the front and rear trim strips are the same distance from the road. I had the coach aligned before I had a GM chart, and never really looked back.

I just called my alignment guy, and he said he never used the charts. I took him the Henderson front drawing and he looked at it and said, "Yep" and it drives great.

My rear Air Lift bags are not exactly under the frame, but push up on a plate that is bolted to the bracket for the OEM rubber bumper.

Next month after the rush abates, we will be at Jalama or Cachuma and could take a look.

My bag pressures end up similar to Roy's. As Roy says, this is probably not a safety issue, but most Pees respond to the factory alignment geometry.

I feel like a little boy who discovered that Santa Claus was a myth. The factory front ride chart is not accurate for my coach. Henderson and others have published the figure of 1 3/4 to 2 1/2 inches bump stop clearance. That is pretty close. On mine, when I have 2 inches bump stop clearance, I have almost 5 inches of metal to metal clearance. This is quite different from the ride height chart.

As to the rear, I do notice that Mike's compilation has a drawing of a straight rail frame on page 15, which might relate to the low numbers on the ride height chart. But on page 17, they show drawings of notched frames. I wonder if earlier Pees had straight rails and the manual did not get updated.

Allan, do a Google search for "air springs" and check the various manufacturers web sites for photos of their products. You may find a match for what you have on your Barth, or find, as Bill suggests, you have a non-standard installation.

quote:

Originally posted by Allan:
The springs have four leafs and two spacers (the same thickness as the springs) at the bottom. Allan Pacela of Solvang

The chart shows only 7, 8 or 10 leaves.

Jake, did they make a 4 leaf P32?

I wonder if someone took out some leaves and used the air bag to fine tune.


I wonder if other shortie owners could give us some input here.

Bill h, olroy, and jake,
I am the original owner, and the rear end is still exactly as it was made at Barth. I recall, at the purchase, that I was told, "in order to pass California smog, they would use a heavier chassis than normal ... which would then NOT need to pass the same California smog requirements as lighter chassis."
Yes, the air bags are mounted just as bill h describes. I will take a photo and figure out how to include it here. Notice that the frame angle is only 2 1/2 degrees high in the rear. That does not seem unreasonable to me, and so I would adjust the caster angle by adding that amount. And, 2.5 degrees translates into (tangent of angle) a 6" rise in the rear over a 137" wheelbase. That is about what I see. So, maybe all is ok?
I will identify the air bags and take a photo ASAP.
Bill h: do let me know when you will be either at Cachuma or at Jallama, as we are located in the Santa Ynez Valley, not too far from Cachuma. It would be my pleasure to take you (and your significant other) out to lunch or dinner in the Solvang area -- my treat!
best regards,
Allan Pacela of Solvang

Now this is starting to make a little sense. +Short coach, heavy chassis. I wondered when I saw you had the 19.5 wheels on a 21 footer. Do you have disk brakes on the rear, too?

It is possible that the factory removed some leaves to compensate for the light body on a heavy chassis.

I wonder if it would handle any better if you inflated the front bags until the bump stop clearance is 2 inches and then leveled the coach by adjusting the rear bags.