Dear Forum Members:
I am new to this forum ... obviously a great place to obtain Barth information! Would anyone be so kind as to assist me with these questions. I am the original owner of a 1996, 22' Class A, Barth in Regency style. Chev P31132-52 chassis, 137" wheelbase, 7.4L V8, actually weighed to be 13,000 pounds, with only 14,000 miles on it. Now that I am happily retired, I am finally paying attention to it, and have these questions:
A. The coach/box rides quite high in the rear. How can I lower the rear or raise the front?
B. how can I install an automatic inflator for the airsprings which are already in place? Any problems to avoid?
C. what shocks could I install for a better ride?
D. what kind/brand of steering stabilizer, or similar, could I install to make the driving easier?
Best regards, Allan Pacela of Solvang, CA


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Hi, Allen, and Welcome.

A. Later today I will send you ride height charts so you can see where you are and where you should be.
B. Do you mean front or rear air bags? Either way, you do not really need automatic air supply. Setting pressure before a trip is good enough. Good bags do not leak down much.
C. My preference is Bilstein, but your coach is lighter, so I am not sure. Monroe is a softer shock.
D. I like a Bilstein, but I am not sure your year has attach points for a steering stabilizer. Take a look at a P30 with a stabilizer on the right side and compare it to yours. If you can't find one to look at, I can send a picture or you could post a picture here. A steer-safe is my choice for mine, but it is only a centering device, offering no hydraulic dampning. If you have no provisions for a damper, I would recommend the Safe T Plus. It installs parallel to the tie rod and incorporates both damping and centering functions. If you do have a dampner, I recommend replacing it with a Bilstein and installing a Blue Ox TruCenter. It is only a centering device, but has driver adjustable neutral.

The P30 chassis is a truck chassis, and will never ride like an MCC. Have you ridden in similar class A motor homes for comparison? With a short wheelbase, there will be a little more pitching than a longer coach. You probably would benefit from a good alignment. Search this site.

[This message has been edited by bill h (edited August 03, 2005).]

Dear Bill H,
Thanks! To clarify, I have both front and back air bags. The ride is better when we begin a trip, but after some number of miles, perhaps a thousand miles or so, the bags begin to lose pressure and the ride gets worse. The back bags are easily inflated, but the front ones require crawling under the front end as the connection is at the bottom of the bags ... very inconvenient to do on a trip.
I don't know the abbreviation MCC?? And, I cannot say that I have ridden in other Class A motorhome for ride comarisons. Perhaps impossible, but what my wife and I really want ... is the soft ride of a big car like our Lincoln town car! Would greatly appreciate a photo of stabilzer attachment points sent to me if possible.
I just had an alignment, but am sure it was a "potato chip truck alignment" as when it was done, the service man advised me that tire pressure should be 95# in front and 85# in rear (the max ratings of the tires). I have weighed the coach and downloaded the latest Michelin tire load charts and see that 70# in front and 65# in rear would be quite safe and likely a much more comfortable ride.
Also, I found and downloaded the very nice "P Chassis for Motorhomes Alignment Draft" from this website and am studying it.
best regards,
Allan Pacela

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bill h. will get you headed in the right direction on ride and handling.

When you have time it would be nice to see a few pictures.

Thanks,

Dale

Welcome Allan. As a starting point,I suggest that you look at Mike's ("Relative")alignment draft of July 15. As Bill suggests, check
your ride heights, both front and rear. There
is a tremendous wealth of experience in this
group, and be sure to take advantage of it.

Jake Jacobson

quote:

Originally posted by Allan:
Dear Bill H,
Thanks! To clarify, I have both front and back air bags. The ride is better when we begin a trip, but after some number of miles, perhaps a thousand miles or so, the bags begin to lose pressure and the ride gets worse. The back bags are easily inflated, but the front ones require crawling under the front end as the connection is at the bottom of the bags ... very inconvenient to do on a trip.
I don't know the abbreviation MCC?? And, I cannot say that I have ridden in other Class A motorhome for ride comparisons. Perhaps impossible, but what my wife and I really want ... is the soft ride of a big car like our Lincoln town car! Would greatly appreciate a photo of stabilizer attachment points sent to me if possible.
I just had an alignment, but am sure it was a "potato chip truck alignment" as when it was done, the service man advised me that tire pressure should be 95# in front and 85# in rear (the max ratings of the tires). I have weighed the coach and downloaded the latest Michelin tire load charts and see that 70# in front and 65# in rear would be quite safe and likely a much more comfortable ride.
Also, I found and downloaded the very nice "P Chassis for Motor homes Alignment Draft" from this website and am studying it.
best regards,
Allan Pacela

Allen, I am not sure you even need rear bags on such a short coach, but the ride height charts will tell the tale. I believe Mike's compilation has ride height charts on it. Getting the ride height exactly right is very very important before you have it aligned. My suggestion is to use Henderson's specs. An IPD bar will help sway issues. Bilsteins would probably be OK up front, but perhaps too stiff in back.

As far as the front bags go, there is a hose kit to allow remote location of the filler valves. Air Lift sells them. I believe the number is 22022, but check with them for sure. Air lift also makes an automatic front air bag compressor, but you shouldn't need it with good bags. Check with them and see if it isolates the bags or not. If it does not isolate the bags, air can be chased from one side to the other, and sway will actually be worse.

Nobody, not even your tire salesman can tell you what tire pressure to run until you have weighed each corner loaded as you drive. Then use the tire manufacturer's chart for proper inflation.

This is just opinion here: Michelins are soft-riding but wiggly, Bridgestones are firm, Goodyears are in between. There are lots of folks out there with lots of opinions, so nothing is definite in tire choice. Just opinion, preference and experience.

You will never get a Lincoln Town Car ride. In fact, you really don't want a Lincoln Town Car ride. On such a heavy and top heavy vehicle, a soft ride would compromise handling and make you subject to wind sway from passing trucks. The MCC is a Barth model that had 4 wheel independent suspension and had an excellent ride. I rode in their predecessor, the FMC, and was scared silly by how fast it could be driven on curvy roads, all the time giving a smooth ride. Your short potato chip truck chassis will never do that. No short Class A will ride like a Lincoln. A Breakaway or Regal will ride better but are longer and cost more. A Foretravel or Alpine are also good. Again, more money and longer. Fords ride a little rougher, too.

Take a look underneath on the pass side. If you have a steering stabilizer (also called a damper or snubber) it will look like a horizontal shock absorber pointing fore and aft, with one end attached to the frame and the other end attached to the steering.

I will be unable to get down and take any pictures for a while as I am recovering from knee surgery, so can't be sure when I will be able to take a picture.





[This message has been edited by bill h (edited August 03, 2005).]

Allan: You can install extention air lines from the bottom of the front air bags inside the springs and attach the the other end of the flexible hose inside your radiator grill. Much easier than having your wife crawl under the coach............

"THE TOY" 88 33' Regal SE Coach #3448

Dear Bill h,
Thank you again! OK, I give up on the "Lincoln town car ride objective," but we still want to make this short 22' Barth as comfortable a ride as possible. I just crawled underneath, and YES, I do find a horizontal steering stabilizer device from frame to steering! Does that mean that I now have the option to possibly install a better stabilizer system? Please forgive my ignorance, but what is "an IPD bar"?

I did recently weigh all four corners because of the great advice I found in this forum, so I have a good handle on weights and tire pressures.

Unfortunately, when I purchased my Barth, I did not know about/understand the important suspension differences between the P30 truck and the prior MCC and FMC. No doubt, I would have preferred the others, but this is what we have, and as far as I know, the Barth company no longer exists. Too bad. So, I will make the best of what I have; and my wife and I do love the ease of parking a 22' motorhome, which can go almost anywhere a car can.

Tires are now Michelin, (and costly) so I am glad to hear that they are the softest of the brands. That would suit us.

Thank you for the important point of "isolation of the left to right bags." I can see where connecting them together could actually be unsafe and increase sway!

You say to "use Henderson's specs" ... is that the information in "Mike's" Draft entitled, "P Chassis for Motorhomes, General Information for Alignment" dated 7/12/05?

With best regards and many thanks to you and the others contributing to this forum ... I appreciate learning from you all,
Allan Pacela from Solvang, CA

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Another alternative to fill airbags - my Regal has lines from the bags to ordinary Schrader valves mounted in the bumper aprons front & rear.

Should be a fairly simple DIY project for a reasonably skilled amateur to install the AirLift kit. The result is an easy pressure check, and fill from an ordinary air hose from outside, without opening the engine compartment. If you're less than 6' tall, you hardly even have to stoop.

No question of isolating the bags, as each is filled separately.

[This message has been edited by olroy (edited August 03, 2005).]

Just a point of information. The basic P-30
Front Suspension is rated at 4300# GAWR, and
to get to the 5000# GAWR that we wanted for the Motorhome chassis, we added the Air Lift air bags inside the Front Coil Springs to give us an additional 350# per side. However, the Front GAWR is tire-limited by the 2440# rated 7.50-16D tires. To get to the 2500# rating, we would have had to use the 7.50-16E tire, which was not readily available at that time, so we settled for the 4880# GAWR rating. Also, the Front Air Bags gave the
motorhome chassis extra roll resistance in
turns that we had not expected.

I noticed an advertisement in the August FMCA
magazine for higher capacity Front Coil
Springs that eliminate the need for the air
bags, so they claim. They claim an extra 25%
capacity, or about a 1000+ lbs. Has anyone
tried them? They cost $180 per pair of springs. The coil springs are shown @
coilsprings.com.

Jake Jacobson

I am NOT an EXPERT, but I would question the addition of a heavier spring without questioning the integrity of the other front end components. They I would think go HAND IN HAND, so to speak.

Let's see what others have to say on this.

Dale

I have a 22 foot Barth and I changed the front springs out with the heavy super springs. They sell them at CW. It really seemed to help and I didn't use the air bags. I had the local motor home guy change them, but I think that I could have done it if I wanted to with the help of a friend. You should check the front end alignment if you change the springs. Dennis

quote:

Originally posted by Allan:
I just crawled underneath, and YES, I do find a horizontal steering stabilizer device from frame to steering! Does that mean that I now have the option to possibly install a better stabilizer system?

Yup. A Bilstein stabilizer/snubber/damper will be a significant improvement. Another improvement would be a go-straight thing. I use a steer safe, which is springs. The tru Center is air springs with a cockpit resettable center point, which I like. The Safe T Plus is a combination snubber and centering springs. It offers a little more snubber effect in addition to the Bilstein in addition to the centering springs. All three are good and have many happy owners. They claim to add safety in a front wheel blowout, also.

quote:

Originally posted by Allan:
Please forgive my ignorance, but what is "an IPD bar"?

Your coach has an anti roll bar in front and maybe in back. It is also called an anti sway bar or a roll bar or a sway bar. Its purpose is to prevent side to side tilting. The IPD replacement bar is thicker and includes stiffer vinyl bushings. Jake will probably disagree with me on that. IPD also sells stiffer vinyl bushings for the rear bar, but I don't recommend them.

quote:

Originally posted by Allan:
You say to "use Henderson's specs" ... is that the information in "Mike's" Draft entitled, "P Chassis for Motorhomes, General Information for Alignment" dated 7/12/05?

I don't think they are on Mike's compilation. Here is a link to an earlier post on this site:

https://www.barthmobile.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000322.html

quote:

Originally posted by Allan:
I did recently weigh all four corners because of the great advice I found in this forum, so I have a good handle on weights and tire pressures.

Good. I would suggest adding 5 or 10 pounds to the Michelin charts for added stability. If the tire on one side of an axle has more weight, use that tire as a guide for inflating tires on that axle.

quote:

Originally posted by Allan:
my wife and I do love the ease of parking a 22' motorhome, which can go almost anywhere a car can.

Yeah, the shorter the better for a lot of our camping, too. In your neighborhood, we like the San Rafael wilderness, and our 30 footer is a bit long for Figueroa Mt Road. An MCC, while great riding, might be too long for you.

Here I go on ride height again. The chassis does not know or care how you achieve the correct ride height. Air bag, helper spring or new spring. As long as your ride height is correct, you are fine, unless you are overloaded. Nothing useful can be accomplished alignment-wise until ride height is correct.

On other vehicles I have found air bags to be much more bouncy under extreme conditions, but I don't think it is a major consideration on MHs.

I have seen warnings about using heavier replacement coil springs. The claim is that the spring will bottom out (coil bind) instead of the bump stops. When I install my Henderson springs, I will replace the bump stops with stiffer (higher durometer, Jake) vinyl ones.

I have found my receipt and the hose kit number you need is AIR-22022 from www.summitracing.com