OK
I want to revisit this topic because I can't follow/see where the hoses are going.

87 32' Regal P-30 454 W/Tag Axle

There is a reservore of some kind by top of radiator on right/drivers side in front

I thought that was for the brakes so you would not have to get under to add fluid.

Now I think it is for steering or other hyd system.

Question. Is there a brake fluid reservore or is it what has already been said. It is the brake master cyl and you have to FIGHT to get to it.

Can I get to it after taking engine covers off? Mike made the front part of the cover removable also.

Guess tomorrow that will be a project as my computers and printer is sitting on the cover now.




------------------
Gordon Brimhall
1987 Barth 32' SE
454 P-30 Chassis
1998 Harley Electra Glide in Tow

I'll answer for my Oshkosh/JohnDeere chassis. I think yours is the same.

The reservoir on top is for power steering/hydraulic boost brakes. I have two of these reservoirs, the other one is for the transmission park brake booster.

The brake master cylinder is located under the floorboard on the drivers side. You have to look forward of the drivers wheel inside of the wheelwell. Mine is so close to the floor you barely have room to add DOT Brake fluid.

DO NOT MISTAKE THE TWO - the upper one gets transmission or power steering fluid - the one underneath gets DOT Brake fluid. If you add the wrong fluid to either one your in BIG trouble. The power steering/transmission fluid will destroy the hoses and seals in the master cylinder.

When you remove the master cylinder cover be carefull nothing falls in - like rust and dirt. This gets the DOT fluid!

It should look something like the ones on the right side of the page...

OK
I am in trouble because I added some brake fluid to the one on top, It was 1/4 full
but we have not gone anyplace so it is probably still in the reservore

No wonder pumping my brakes didn't do much after and the white brake lite is still on.

quote:

Originally posted by gordonb:
OK
I want to revisit this topic because I can't follow/see where the hoses are going.

87 32' Regal P-30 454 W/Tag Axle

There is a reservore of some kind by top of radiator on right/drivers side in front

I thought that was for the brakes so you would not have to get under to add fluid.

Now I think it is for steering or other hyd system.

Question. Is there a brake fluid reservore or is it what has already been said. It is the brake master cyl and you have to FIGHT to get to it.

Can I get to it after taking engine covers off? Mike made the front part of the cover removable also.

Guess tomorrow that will be a project as my computers and printer is sitting on the cover now.

quote:

Originally posted by gordonb:
OK
I am in trouble because I added some brake fluid to the one on top, It was 1/4 full
but we have not gone anyplace so it is probably still in the reservore.

If you started your coach it is now in the system - drain it now and refill - flush and refill again. This is not the critical one. Still bad but more manageable.

How long has it been mixed like this?

The power steering/transmission fluid in the master cylinder would have been more critical.

We been sitting for 6 months and I start the engine every week or so.
Have only put it in gear couple times.

If it is up in the reservore and has not had to go down into the system how will it contaminate the system?

DUH

Now I know I am a Dummy

quote:

Originally posted by Bill:
If you started your coach it is now in the system - drain it now and refill - flush and refill again. This is not the critical one. Still bad but more manageable.

How long has it been mixed like this?

The power steering/transmission fluid in the master cylinder would have been more critical.

Don't count on the brake fluid still being in the reservoir. It's likely mixed by now.

Do just as Bill says - you might want first to try to suck as much out of the reservoir as you can with a turkey baster or battery syringe (throw away after use), then top off with ATF.

Count your blessings in that you didn't put ATF into the master cylinder - that would necessitate removal, cleaning, and replacement of all the seals in the master - if you had bled the system, you don't want to know the extent of the work you'd have to do.

You ended up quite lucky, all things considered - no damage, just a bit of inconvenience.

------------------
Rusty

StaRV II, '94 28' Breakaway, 6.5L TD
2 Not-spoiled Golden Retrievers.

Gordon said he had a P-30 (Chevy)
"87 32' Regal P-30 454 W/Tag Axle"
Apparently all the instructions refer to something else, viz:
"I'll answer for my Oshkosh/JohnDeere chassis. I think yours is the same."

I am confused, and if Gordon is also, iI suggest he back up and start over.



------------------
"You are what you drive" - Clint Eastwood

I talked to my neighbor who is the master wrench here at the landing and he told me it would not hurt the fluid because the trans and such had rubber made out of another type of material that would not fall apart but still good uidea to take out what is in the reservor and put the right fluid in.

He also said YOUR LUCKY you didn't put trans fluid in the brake system.

quote:

Originally posted by Gunner:
Gordon said he had a P-30 (Chevy)
"87 32' Regal P-30 454 W/Tag Axle"
Apparently all the instructions refer to something else, viz:
"I'll answer for my Oshkosh/JohnDeere chassis. I think yours is the same."

I am confused, and if Gordon is also, iI suggest he back up and start over.

SO: Exactly what "reservoir" is it? And what did you add to which? I say again: It appears all the advice given here may refer to a different setup than what you have in your CHEVY.

------------------
"You are what you drive" - Clint Eastwood

If you put DOT fluid in the reservoir it is now in the HYDRAULIC side of the HYDROBOOST part of the BRAKE BOOSTER.

The power steering fluid now has DOT brake fluid mixed in the reservoir and throughout the entire parts of the hydroboost system.

You did not get DOT and transmission fluid into the MASTER CYLINDER but into the BOOST SIDE of the system.

The DOT fluid in the Boost side has now contaminated your Boost side only. This is what we need to clean out to save the Boost side from further damage.

If what I said up to this point makes sense then you need to remove the DOT fluid from the Booster side of the brake system. Yes?

There is no transmission fluid in the Master cylinder. Yes?

There are two different sides to your brakes system. The transmission/power steering fluid side that we are talking about needs to get the DOT fluid out of it. If you have started it then the DOT fluid is mixed up in the Boost side of the system. Not in the master cylinder side.

Drain and flush and repeat only that side to remove the DOT Fluid contamination. This will not affect the master cylinder side.

The easiest way to describe this is. Go out to your car and step on the brakes. Very hard to step on. start it up and step on it. Very easy to use the brakes. Almost the same as what we are talking about. The car uses vacuum and the Barth uses hydraulic fluid. Both have power brakes.

The boost side is contaminated. Now after cleaning the hydraulic fluid your ready to tackle the root cause of what started this... The weak brake pedal. Yes? You had to pump your brakes to stop. Yes?

Add DOT fluid to the Master cylinder. Go to the Furthest Location and crack the bleeder vent at the wheel cylinder. Have someone that you can trust to follow directions. Make sure he steps on the brakes and does not let his foot back up until you tighten the bleeder screw back up.

You really need to do this in several stages. Each is important if you want this to work properly

1) fill master fluid with DOT fluid and reinstall the cover

2) pump the brake pedal 4-5 times

3) the last time hold the pedal down

4) crack open the brake bleeder and watch fluid trickle or shoot out.

5) Tighten the bleeder

Add more brake fluid and repeat 1) 2) 3) 4) 5) at each wheel cylinder (6 times or more) starting at the right rear, left rear, right front and then left front. This will get your brake pedal harder once you get the air out of the system. This will get new fluid into the brake lines and air out of the brake master cylinder.

Now we need to ask. Why did the brake fluid leave the system? It doesn't evaporate. Look for a DOT brake fluid leak. Replace what is leaking.

If you don't have a high and hard pedal then don't move your coach. Have it towed to a garage. Do not risk hurting yourself or other to save a buck.

My opinion is... If you didn't know enough about were to put DOT brake fluid then maybe you should have someone else do what I just described. Does any of your neighbors seem to have mechanic skills? Ask for help from a friend, co-worker or neighbor. I'm sure you know someone who likes to work on there car or pick up. Seek out those individuals to help you with this.

Below is not meant to offend you. It is something that must be said. Read carefully. Take it to heart. Understand that I am trying to help you....

I offer this advice freely. You paid nothing for it. I don't want to see you or anyone else get hurt. If you didn't understand everything I said then save yourself from major headaches and tow it to a garage now.

Don't take this the wrong way...This is to protect myself...my practicle side screams out you: walk away from this job!...Let a mechanic do it! The realistic side of me tells me your going to do it anyway. I would rather arm you with a few tips then to have you go at this willy nilly.

If you have any additional questions ask and I'll try to walk you through it. Just don't expect me to get blamed if you screw it up and hurt someone. you are taking a very big risk if you do this wrong and then get hurt or hurt someone else. Understand? I want to live in my house and will not be resposible for your mistakes.

Below is meant to slap you in the face. It is not meant to be mean spirited. It's like you splashing very cold water in your face. It will sting a little but will dry off.

Why do I feel like I just handed a machine gun to a mass murderer and then set him free in the big city?

here's a towel... dry off.

Good luck and let us know what happened.

quote:

Originally posted by gordonb:
I talked to my neighbor who is the master wrench here at the landing and he told me it would not hurt the fluid because the trans and such had rubber made out of another type of material that would not fall apart but still good uidea to take out what is in the reservor and put the right fluid in.

He also said YOUR LUCKY you didn't put trans fluid in the brake system.

Well, your neighbor's partially right. The seals in the power steering system aren't likely to be affected by brake fluid. Brake fluid is not, however, formulated for lubrication, which the power steering pump requires.

You might be able to engage him to help you get things sorted out.

I'm with Bill - if you're unfamiliar with Things Mechanical, get someone who is to do it. You're going to be messing with two of the three most important elements of vehicle control - steering and brakes (the third is tires....).

To elaborate on what Bill mentioned about the brake power boost - Chevy uses a tap off the power steering pump to provide power boost for the brakes. While you're getting this done, a new P/S belt is a wise idea.

When I picked up my SOB, about 8 miles from home (it was only about 20 miles total), it threw the P/S belt - so the last, careful miles were without power steering or brake boost.



------------------
Rusty

StaRV II, '94 28' Breakaway, 6.5L TD
2 Not-spoiled Golden Retrievers.

quote:

Originally posted by Gunner:
...I say again: It appears all the advice given here may refer to a different setup than what you have in your CHEVY.

Brake bleeding and types of fluid are the same. I just can't go outside and tell him what size wrench to use or give him a part number etc. The advice is meant to be generic but informed. I think this should help him out or scare him.

Actually I have blead many cars in the past starting with my old 46 chev when I was 16 and worked as a flat rate mech part time long ago while in the AF as a Elec Aircraft/Missle RPM.

So I made a mistake putting brake fluid in the steering reservor and talking to Jerry the landing head wrench he says it is not all that bad as long as I didn't put steering fluid into the break system.

He says it will not hurt that side because the rubber gaskets are made from a different material and it will not eat them up.

So I have it in the booster side. I will look at my manual for the chassis

You tell me what are the side effects if I do not take it out of the whole system if it did get into it by running down the tube via gravity feed? Especially sinse it is still where I put it.

Being in the top of the reservor with one tube leading into the system tell me how it got all mixed up with the other fluid?

Not like being in the steering unit where it runs from one side thru the system and back under high pressue. That is why the high pressure fittings

I just want your explain of what is going to happen so I can tell the Head Wrench he is full of Doo Doo

Not to offend you at all because you sound like you know what you are talking about.

Thanks

PS I first approached the wrench in town about the cost to check all fittings and bleed the brakes. This was before I did anything. He said he can't give me a price untill he gets into the system and pulls it apart

WRONG ANSWER

quote:

Originally posted by Bill:
If you put DOT fluid in the reservoir it is now in the HYDRAULIC side of the HYDROBOOST part of the BRAKE BOOSTER.

The power steering fluid now has DOT brake fluid mixed in the reservoir and throughout the entire parts of the hydroboost system.

You did not get DOT and transmission fluid into the MASTER CYLINDER but into the BOOST SIDE of the system.

The DOT fluid in the Boost side has now contaminated your Boost side only. This is what we need to clean out to save the Boost side from further damage.

If what I said up to this point makes sense then you need to remove the DOT fluid from the Booster side of the brake system. Yes?

There is no transmission fluid in the Master cylinder. Yes?

There are two different sides to your brakes system. The transmission/power steering fluid side that we are talking about needs to get the DOT fluid out of it. If you have started it then the DOT fluid is mixed up in the Boost side of the system. Not in the master cylinder side.

Drain and flush and repeat only that side to remove the DOT Fluid contamination. This will not affect the master cylinder side.

The easiest way to describe this is. Go out to your car and step on the brakes. Very hard to step on. start it up and step on it. Very easy to use the brakes. Almost the same as what we are talking about. The car uses vacuum and the Barth uses hydraulic fluid. Both have power brakes.

The boost side is contaminated. Now after cleaning the hydraulic fluid your ready to tackle the root cause of what started this... The weak brake pedal. Yes? You had to pump your brakes to stop. Yes?

Add DOT fluid to the Master cylinder. Go to the Furthest Location and crack the bleeder vent at the wheel cylinder. Have someone that you can trust to follow directions. Make sure he steps on the brakes and does not let his foot back up until you tighten the bleeder screw back up.

You really need to do this in several stages. Each is important if you want this to work properly

1) fill master fluid with DOT fluid and reinstall the cover

2) pump the brake pedal 4-5 times

3) the last time hold the pedal down

4) crack open the brake bleeder and watch fluid trickle or shoot out.

5) Tighten the bleeder

Add more brake fluid and repeat 1) 2) 3) 4) 5) at each wheel cylinder (6 times or more) starting at the right rear, left rear, right front and then left front. This will get your brake pedal harder once you get the air out of the system. This will get new fluid into the brake lines and air out of the brake master cylinder.

Now we need to ask. Why did the brake fluid leave the system? It doesn't evaporate. Look for a DOT brake fluid leak. Replace what is leaking.

If you don't have a high and hard pedal then don't move your coach. Have it towed to a garage. Do not risk hurting yourself or other to save a buck.

My opinion is... If you didn't know enough about were to put DOT brake fluid then maybe you should have someone else do what I just described. Does any of your neighbors seem to have mechanic skills? Ask for help from a friend, co-worker or neighbor. I'm sure you know someone who likes to work on there car or pick up. Seek out those individuals to help you with this.

[b]Below is not meant to offend you. It is something that must be said. Read carefully. Take it to heart. Understand that I am trying to help you....

I offer this advice freely. You paid nothing for it. I don't want to see you or anyone else get hurt. If you didn't understand everything I said then save yourself from major headaches and tow it to a garage now.

Don't take this the wrong way...This is to protect myself...my practicle side screams out you: walk away from this job!...Let a mechanic do it! The realistic side of me tells me your going to do it anyway. I would rather arm you with a few tips then to have you go at this willy nilly.

If you have any additional questions ask and I'll try to walk you through it. Just don't expect me to get blamed if you screw it up and hurt someone. you are taking a very big risk if you do this wrong and then get hurt or hurt someone else. Understand? I want to live in my house and will not be resposible for your mistakes.

Below is meant to slap you in the face. It is not meant to be mean spirited. It's like you splashing very cold water in your face. It will sting a little but will dry off.

Why do I feel like I just handed a machine gun to a mass murderer and then set him free in the big city?

here's a towel... dry off.

Good luck and let us know what happened.

quote:

Originally posted by gordonb:
I talked to my neighbor who is the master wrench here at the landing and he told me it would not hurt the fluid because the trans and such had rubber made out of another type of material that would not fall apart but still good uidea to take out what is in the reservor and put the right fluid in.

He also said YOUR LUCKY you didn't put trans fluid in the brake system.

Pay him to help you!

I mean this kindly: The recommendation to drain and flush the system is sound. While you may be right that the brake fluid hasn't migrated to the rest of the system, you may also be wrong.

Now, Bill has many years of keeping trucks running, and I have many years of being paid handsomely (well, sometimes not) for my advice regarding lubricants.

We both agree that the safest route is to flush the power steering system.

When I was an oil peddler, I used to tell my prospects and customers, "Oil's cheaper than metal."

It still is.

------------------
Rusty

StaRV II, '94 28' Breakaway, 6.5L TD
2 Not-spoiled Golden Retrievers.