Speaking of Mobil 1, I had it cause a rear main seal failure in an LT1 Chevy. It caused the adhesive holding the rubber part to the metal part to fail. It happened right after I switched to Mobil 1. No one else has heard of such a thing, but I still have the seal for show and tell. It wasn't a CR, National or Fel Pro, but some other brand that chevy put in. Lots of work, as it was in a Jag.

I use Mobil 1 in all my other stuff with no drama.

bill h, I have a feeling that somebody at GM told you the rear seal failed due to using Mobil 1. Frankly, I'd place the blame on inferior adhesive (Why in the world would a rear seal be glued together instead of a friction fit, anyway?). There is nothing bizarre AFAIK about the Mobil 1 additive package.

I don't doubt your word, but I'd attribute it to coincidence.

And it sounds like you made the Chebby conversion on your saloon - I had a friend do that, and that was a very wise endeavor - made the car a whole different animal (if you'll excuse the analogy!)

BTW, years ago I had a Mk I 3.4R...what a machine!

European styling with American power and reliability....i have a 62 Triumph TR-4 with a 289 and a C-4 automatic tranny, kind of a poor man's cobra.

quote:

Originally posted by duteman:
I read somewhere that MOBIL first developed a synthetic grease for fighter jet wheel bearings... then on to oils. Great stuff.

I meant to respond, hopefully to clear up some misconceptions about grease, and maybe to confirm what you heard.

The general view is that grease is a thick oil. Not so. Grease is made by adding a thickener to a base oil stock. A typical thickener is soap. The early ones used a sodium soap, not far removed from what one showers with monthly. The old Army B&B grease was such a product. The problem with sodium soaps is that they're water-soluble.

Lithium soaps, OTOH, aren't water-soluble.

Oils are made by formulae. Greases are concocted by "recipes", and the guy in charge of grease-making is usually referred to as "The Chef".

Anyway, the typical grease (seen mostly as "Lithium #2") is a lithium-soap (Like Lithium-12 Hydroxy Stearate) cooked with a base stock (usually a SSU 23 to 33 oil, usually 27 - roughly a 10W viscosity). To this are joined additives to produce extra qualities, like oxidation inhibitors, and EP or HD compounds.

EP is "Extreme Pressure", denoting a grease's ability to stand up on heavily-loaded spur gears and bearings. HD denotes "Heavy Duty", which adds a sliding component, such as is found in helical gears, to the mix.

So a "synthetic grease" would have, typically, a common lithium-soap based thickener with a synthetic base stock.

Heat resistance of a grease is denoted by its "drop point", which is the temperature at which the thickener melts. For lithium greases, this is around 400-450F.

Hectorite clay is another thickener, and because it's ceramic, the drop point is in excess of 550F. But of course at those temps, the base stock may start to cook off....

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Hectorite clay is another thickener...

OOOOHH...........new word. I wonder if I can get away with using it in Scrabble.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
bill h, I have a feeling that somebody at GM told you the rear seal failed due to using Mobil 1. Frankly, I'd place the blame on inferior adhesive

BTW, years ago I had a Mk I 3.4R...what a machine!

Yeah, I don't blame Mobil 1 for that either. Chevy put it in the hi perf vettes that didn't have oil coolers, as it takes heat better than dyno oils. It failed before 40 000 miles, within 1 block of the oil change. And it failed massively, leaving a stream of oil on the road.

If you send me your address, I can send you the seal if you are interested.

Yeah, those MKs were nice. I always wanted a 3.8 MK II, but ended up with a MK IX. Put a Buick 455 with a Paxton blower in it. I used to four wheel drift it on twisty courses. I wish I could remember my times at Willow Springs so I could brag.

Bill, thanks for the offer of the seal,but my Museum of Stuff That Failed Before It Should Have is overstocked

That Mk IX with the 455 must have surprised a lot of muscle cars! I bought the Mk I from adealer friend of mine - and couldn't get it tuned worth a darn. So he referred me to his Service Manager, Scotty.

Scotty asked, "How've yae got 'er tooned?"
"By the book - jam on."
He sez, "Weel, what yae hae herrre is a racing saloon, an' the boook is all wrrrong!"

He remembered the "Noombers", and in 20 minutes that car was transformed. At 120, the only noise in the cockpit was wind over the mirrors....

I am seriously enjoying this entire discussion and now wondering if all that I've learned will qualify me for a degree in Engineering or Chemistry? Please advise. Don't stop now,"THE TOY" is running better as we speak................carl

"THE TOY" 88 33' Regal SE Coach #3448

What's is "Marvel Mystery Oil" and why would you put that stuff in the engine, transmission, gas tank and your hair?

Isn't it some type of mouse milk?

Got to make sure "THE TOY" gets all it's vitamins!

What would you do to the engine, transmission, gas tank ETC. just before putting our toys away for the winter?

Ceeing tat weez gots r selz a bon-e-fide Engerneer maybez weez kan "GET HER DONE"

What's your recommendation!

Has anyone INTRODUCED Rusty to ron yet? Maybe Rusty can figure out ron's male/male extension cord.

I think ron went for a ride on his scooter this weekend to his 40th. High School reunion. Some folks rent from us a Caddy to IMPRESS their old mates. We can tell as when they return the car all the Avis I.D.'s have been removed. They have a FIT when at some point in their rental they notice the Lic. plates are from a different state than they live in. Kind of gives it all away, TRUE.

Dale

[This message has been edited by Smith Brother (edited October 07, 2005).]

quote:

Originally posted by Bill:
What's is "Marvel Mystery Oil" and why would you put that stuff in the engine, transmission, gas tank and your hair?

Isn't it some type of mouse milk?

Got to make sure "THE TOY" gets all it's vitamins!

What would you do to the engine, transmission, gas tank ETC. just before putting our toys away for the winter?

Ceeing tat weez gots r selz a bon-e-fide Engerneer maybez weez kan "GET HER DONE"

What's your recommendation?!

Marvel Mystery Oil's formulation is, well, a "mystery". Years ago, when motor oil wasn't as robust as now, it was an excellent product for freeing sticky lifters and stuck rings. (Recall that years ago, many auto manufacturers INSISTED on non-detergent oil!)IMHO, its time has come and gone.

I would avoid laying up any vehicle for an entire season if at all possible, but I realize in the Great White North, this isn't always practical.

Anyway, I'd give the engine an oil/filter change just before hibernation. For the transmission, nothing needs to be done. The fuel tank would get a dose of Sta-Bil on the last trip before layup. Flushing the radiator and a fresh fill of anti-freeze wouldn't hurt.

However, the ideal winter program would be to loan the Barth to me; here in Florida it could get used.

Sorry Rusty, if I was going to bring it to Florida it would be for opening week at Daytona. I'd give Danny a call and check out the sites with him.

I'm afraid the 1991 460 EFI gaso (NOT PROPANE SEE) would consume my entire funding for the week and I would have to put up the "Will work for food sign" just to make sure I had enough to get back!

If I started out on the trip and I went thru half my money I would have to turn around and come home. If I made it there and then the price of fuel starts to climb I might only make it as far back as North Carolina.

Wow, I just now figured out why all those New Yorkers are in North Carolina!


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http://www.truckroadservice.com/

"What's is "Marvel Mystery Oil" and why would you put that stuff in the engine, transmission, gas tank and your hair? "

Bill,

For us gearheads in the group, it's a kick to Google: Marvel Mystery Oil (& oiler) and read the comments. Seems about a 50/50 split between the Swear-By and Swear-At postings.

Best description is probably the comparison between MMO and chicken soup: It might not do ANYTHING, but probably won't hurt either. And of course, like my adult beverages and my cigars, moderation is always the key........

With all due respect to Rusty's expertise (and he's probably right on the money regarding mouse milk products), MMO has an almost religious following, me included. Much of it is based on faith and habit. Plus, I'm not ready yet to admit that my decades of using MMO and the money I've spent has all been for naught......

P.S. Haven't used it in my hair.....yet, but you do bring up an interesting idea.

I must say that my testimonial about MMO performing enough miracles for sainthood on the Dreaded Continental Lifter Knock dates back to the sixties and Aeroshell 100.

That fits in with Rusty's comment about old oils needing it and modern oils maybe not.

You're right about those older C-65 thru C-90's Bill....but I think a lot of the blame needs to go to the phase-out of 80 octane avgas....Today's LL100 is rough on those little machines, even with additives.....

SIDEBAR: To make the ownership of vintage aircraft even worse, the good ole EPA is now zeroing-in on the radium in the face & dials of the old instruments! Hmmmm...maybe a light coat of MMO would solve that too?...