I've noticed there's a wide spread of mechanical aptitude and experience for Barth owners here.

Having been a lubricants engineer for a major oil company and the Navy, I'd like to share (or inflict) some advice on the care and feeding of a powertrain, either gaso or diesel. BTW, in Oilguy Lingo, "gas" is natural gas or LPG. "Gaso" is gasoline.

1. Rule 1: "Oil is cheaper than metal."

2. Do NOT "Warm up" an engine. Be ready to roll before turning the key. As soon as the engine is running smoothly, put 'er in gear and ease off. Don't stick your foot in it until it's completely warmed up. Gaso engines usually take about 7 miles, diesels 10-12. The latter is actually a cooler-running engine. Most engine wear takes place while the engine is idling cold after startup. If you live in the Frozen North, install a block heater, and use it at least 24 hours before rolling if the temperature's below 30F. If the temp's really extreme, (OF or less) consider swaddling your engine in a blanket.

3. Before shutting down, idle the engine for 3-5 minutes, the longer period if it's been run hard before you stop the vehicle. This allows both the engine and transmission to dissipate and equalize heat.

4. An engine running is an engine not wearing out. IMHO, a 10 year-old motorhome with 20,000 miles is more of a risk than one the same year with 80,000 miles. The 10 year-old luxury sedan with 6,000 miles on it is, in Oilguy parlance, an "Aunt Minnie", for dear old Aunt Minnie who drove it one day a week to the supermarket 3 miles each way, and to church, 2 miles. You'll be able to pave your driveway with the crankcase oil, once you trowel it out of the oil pan.

5. Oil does not "wear out". The additive package becomes depleted by contaminants. Most contaminants migrate to the crankcase in the first 10 minutes until the engine is warm. Synthetic oils are longer-lived because they are homogenous, and don't have as many constituents that react badly to contaminants to the extent non-synthetics do.

Once the contaminants have depleted the additive package, the next project is engine parts. BTW, we're talking acid, here, lest one wish to ignore this issue.

6. If you want to run a vehicle periodically that would otherwise be idle, go at least 20 miles in a gaso engine, and 30 in a diesel. The idea in addition to relubing the bearings and the gallery is to boil off water, which is the main carrier and enabler of contaminants.

7. If you are laying up an engine (say for the winter), and only driving it periodically, use a fuel stabilizer. Run it for several miles to get the stabilizer into the carb/injector system.

8. Don't forget the transmission. It's generally more complicated than the engine. Change the fluid and filter no less frequently than every two years, three if using a synthetic.

9. If the engine oil is ever milky appearing, it's a sign of water contamination, and that's likely come from the cooling system. Ethylene glycol will make a crankcase look like a coal mine in short order. Get it fixed. A new head gasket is cheaper than an engine rebuild (and I mean upper and lower!)

10. Don't forget the differential. See Item 1.

11. Time is as big an adversary to engine oil as is mileage. Less damage to the oil occurs in a 12,000 mile, 6 week trip than in 4,000 miles in a year.

12. See Item 1. Do not skimp on lubricants. IMHO, the preferred oil for diesels is Shell Rotella T, Mobil (I don't know product names since the merger with Exxon), or Kendall Series III. For gaso engines, Shell, Mobil, Pennzoil (now owned by Shell), or Kendall. I use Mobil 1 in my motorhome and car, and Rotella T in the diesel van. DO NOT believe advertisements. (As a matter-of-fact, I don't know why you should believe me, either, except I've been there...)

The biggest advantage for synthetic engine oils is not for those vehicles driven daily, but for those that may sit for weeks at a time.

13. Mouse Milk: This is Oilguy-Speak for additives. There is virtually none worthwhile for crankcases, transmissions, or differentials. For fuel systems, Siloo for diesels, SeaFoam or Chevron's Techron for gaso engines. All do a good job cleaning the fuel system.

14. Don't forget the cooling system. Don't use lye-based flushing products if there's any aluminum in your system (usually the radiator). Mix ethylene glycol 50-50 with DISTILLED water. NEVER use tap water, spring water, or de-ionized water. Distilled water, too, is cheaper than metal. When I got my diesel van (a true Brother-in-Law special), I went through the thing knowing his penchant for doing only basic maintenance. I got a cup-and-a-half of (mostly calcium) crud out of the 5 gallon cooling system and this was AFTER I flushed the system. The radiator was a throwaway.

15. Oil is cheaper than metal (Altogether now, "OIL IS CHEAPER THAN METAL!")

Class dismissed. :-)

[This message has been edited by Rusty (edited October 03, 2005).]

Rusty,

Regarding #13, Ref: Mouse Milk.........

For over four decades I've been addicted to Marvel Mystery oil....a little in the tank, a little in the crackcase, a little on the door hinges, etc. (Even thought I'd look for an old timer vacuum-injection bottle set-up that Marvel used to peddle to suck a drop or two through the carb every so often....)

Always thought I was treating my toys better than the guy down the street....NOW you say I've wasted my money......

Say it ain't so Rusty!!!..........

Marvel Mystery Oil (used sparingly) doesn't hurt. One thing that it does in the fuel tank is slightly change the combustion parameters, and that can be beneficial in removing deposits.

It's not as critical in engines burning unleaded gaso, since there's no lead or phosphorous to make deposits. But then a cupful of transmission fluid once a year in a tank does the same thing...

No additive of which I'm aware does anything in the crankcase, and some can actually be harmful. The secret is use a quality engine oil and change it periodically. The research vehicles at the company where I worked had as many as 500K miles, and never even had a valve cover off. Oil was changed with the company's products according to the car manufacturer's recommendation.

Additive packages in SD or later or CC or later oils have to be so robust that mouse milk will do nothing that the additive package doesn't do far better.

Things like Marvel Mystery Oil have been known to free up sticky lifters, but they got stuck because the engine oil wasn't as good as it should have been, or wasn't changed like it should have been.

BTW, examining the color of the oil on the dipstick reveals only one secret: What color the oil is. The color tells nothing about the oil's condition. Diesel engine oil would (and should) be black after but a few miles.

Tranmission fluid, OTOH, contains a red dye which will discolor brown if it's been overheated.

Another myth is that a multigrade oil (i.e., 15W/40) thickens as it heats up. Winter grade ("W") oils have the viscosity measured at a cold temperature. A straight-grade (i.e., 10W) would thin out so much that when measured at the "Summer Grade" temperature, it would be off the chart. A 15W/40 would have an SAE viscosity of 15 at the winter temp and 40 at the summer temp.

Rusty, whenever I hear additives denounced in a blanket fashion as "mouse milk" my alarms go off.

I am a true believer in Red Line's fuel system cleaner. It does better job on my Jag V12 itty bitty injectors than Techron or Gumout ever did. Same for my genset. The genset never ran so well as it has since I RL'd it. Starts better, too. It also loosened up all manner of crud in my MH fuel system. Not just the carb, but the lines, tank, everything.

And I am with Lee on Marvel Mystery Oil. More than once, it cleared up the Continental Lifter Knock.

Of course, there are lots of additives that are not effective, too.

Fuel system additives are a different story. SeaFoam seems to work very well in carburetted engines, Techron in FI systems. I'm not familiar with Red Line fuel system cleaner.

"Mouse Milk" refers to engine oil additives. Unfortunately, most people have to rely on advertising to determine what products are good and what aren't...the older API tests on motor oil's capabilities were short term (for the most part they still are). Things like sticky lifters, ring belt deposits, and varnish in the galleries are all fairly common with heavily-advertised but not-so-capable motor oils.

(MILSPEC tests are far more rigorous, and an oil passing the MIL-L-2104-series and the MIL-L-46152-series is far more likely to stand up for its entire service life.)

So additives like Marvel Mystery Oil are employed to clean up many of the residues caused by the failure of those inadequate oils. With a premium motor oil in the engine, things like Marvel Mystery Oil (which does pretty much what is claimed) would be unnecessary.

I'm not necessarily disparaging motor oil additives. My point is that they should not be necessary if the motor oil is robustly formulated. Unfortunately, many additives also fail to live up to their claims.

Curious... just how exactly does a lubricants engineer get a moniker like "Rusty"? Hair? If so, what a cruel trick!

But Rusty, all kidding aside, you are right on here. Filtration is more important than most people think. It pains me to see the teensy bypass filters cars have these days. Give me a big full-flow canister anytime.

I was a maintenance mechanic (read: Unionized grease-Monkey) for SeaLand in Alaska in the early 70's. you probably know this but for those who don't, MOBIL had developed systhetics prior, with greases first and then oil to stay fluid in the sub-zero arctic oil fields in the late 60's. In the early 70's they started long-term and cold-weather testing what was to become MOBIL 1, and they ran 4 brand-new Tractors with CUMMINS' exclusively on it. We tore the engines down every 250k to mic out parts and check for wear. The grizzlied old fart mechanics were cussin' the stuff, saying it would never work, etc. mainly because it's made CLEAR, and they just DYE IT to make us consumers THINK it's "oil". These old guys were spitting at the "darn water-lookin' junk" we were putting in these rigs. Well, after 2 million miles, the engine parts showed nearly ZERO wear on oiled surfaces. Absolutely blew me away, as I was an impressionable kid at the time. I've always used synthetic since, usually a MOBIL product. Never had an oil related engine failure. My oil of choice for the diesels in my family is CAT SYNTHETIC, really MOBIL DELVAC 1 repackaged for Caterpillar. It comes in gallons at CAT dealerships, great stuff.

Not cheap, but... CHEAPER THAN METAL!!!

I was told I got the name "Rusty" because "Rumplestiltskin" was already taken...(fortunately).

Synthetics started out in jet aircraft - mainly so the viscosity could be accurately predicted from 120F at a desert airfield to -40F at 35K feet.

The big advantage to a synthetic as engine oil is that it's one pure isomer...no contaminants nor other stuff that will deteriorate earlier than the main stock.

Shell Rotella/Rotella T and Mobil Delvac (I checked and it still has the same name after the merger) or Delvac synthetic are, IMHO, unsurpassed, although Kendall Super-D III is also very, very good.

I read somewhere that MOBIL first developed a synthetic grease for fighter jet wheel bearings... then on to oils. Great stuff.

I ran CASTROL SYNTEC once... did not like it. Of all the odd things I would loose some between oil changes. Burn, I assume, because I wasn't leaking it. Switched back to MOBIL 1 and didn't loose a drop. Interesting. Yo me, at least. I gusess you had to be there...

Stupid Question Now from someone who doesn't know.

Is there any special process that you need to do to change from regular oil to synthetic?

Thanks!

Love this site.


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Bruce

Not at all a stupid question. In the olden days, before the current API grading (SF, SG, SH, etc.), the quality of motor oils varied widely, and switching brands required some care. Not so much anymore, as the tests to qualify for an API grade are pretty rigorous.

If you're currently running brand-name high-quality oil, you can usually just do it. I switched both my car and motorhome (gaso) to Mobil 1 with no problems.

The main difference is in the oil's base stock, not the additive package. If you want to take a precaution (probably not necessary), switch first to the brand's premium mineral-based oil, then to the synthetic.

The only thing I did was to switch both vehicles after about 500 miles after a fresh oil change so that the engine's innards were as clean as could be, and that would be the only recommendation I'd make.

I was told that if you changed your oil and then added 1qt of transmission fluid it would clean the sludge out of an engine.

I know it's a detergent and heck I've even washed my hands with trans fluid a couple of times.

What about adding a quart of transmission fluid to your new mineral oil change and after 500 miles of light driving changing it before putting in the synthetic oil?

If that sounds scary then don't read below.

We use to run older motors to operating temps and then keep her revved to around 2-3,000 rpm and pour a cupfull or three of water down the carb to blow out the deposits. If the car had pinging or ran on after shutting it off and the timing was set correctly this usually cured the problem. At the very least it left the driveway and garage door black.

YIKES! is all I can say about THAT! My fear is: you loosen up all that sludge, then pump it around in your engine to settle here and there and wear parts even worse! I say, don't make sludge in the FIRST place! Rusty's said it all: OIL IS CHEAPER THAN METAL!!!

Pouring water through the carb is an old time cure for pinging, carboned-up engines. I've used it myself more than once, but not since the 1960s.
Oil & fuel technology, & fuel delivery systems have changed over the years, & I doubt if it would be necessary, or effective today.

Unleaded fuels leave a different kind of deposit, oil control is better, engines run hotter, fuel is metered more precisely. These & other factors combine to make engines more efficient. A half-century ago, one hp per cu. in. was achieved only in racing engines burning special fuels. Many production cars today, produce that and more, on regular gas.

The times, they are achangin'.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill:
I was told that if you changed your oil and then added 1qt of transmission fluid it would clean the sludge out of an engine.

I know it's a detergent and heck I've even washed my hands with trans fluid a couple of times.

I would keep automatic transmission fluid (ATF)out of the crankcase. At the least, it would dilute the additive package, which, in addition to detergency, provides other features such as anti-oxidants and anti-scuff compounds. Worse, the ATF, already a low-viscosity lube, thins out considerably more than a multi-grade.

Actually, motor oil (MO)contains a lot of detergents. ATF doesn't. The additives in MO, called "detergent-dispersants" are formulated to emulsify with water and to keep contaminants in suspension. The water gets boiled off and the contaminants get removed by the oil filter.

Clean motor oil is also effective at cleaning grease and crud from your hands - due to the detergent. ATF OTOH, is relatively low viscosity and has some solvent action, so it would work, too, just not as well and MO.

Because an automatic transmission is not subjected to the introduction of contaminants, detergents aren't needed in the ATF. If water were introduced into a transmission, it would settle out into the sum, not be suspended.

As duteman pointed out, loosening sludge is one thing, where it ends up is another - to much, to soon, and it could clog the oil ports.

Modern fuel systems, tighter tolerances, more efficient design, and better lubes, as olroy said, contribute to fewer contaminants. The major challenge today is to keep the MO itself from being the problem, and that's why synthetics do well.

The last time I poured water down my carburetor was back in the 80's just before unleaded was mandatory. I haven't done anything like that in 20+ years.

As far as the transmission fluid in the crankcase is concerned I have done that (way back when) with success loosing up a sticking lifter. I changed the motor oil hoping that would help but that alone didn't do it. After adding the transmission fluid and running it for the day we drained the motor oil and the stuff that came out of drain was sludge like.

This was in my first car way back in high school. I never had a tapping noise again and the oil psi went up. I did have to put on one of those big 2qt filters on for fear of plugging up the new filter.

I know the oil now has a lot more properties to it then when I was 16. At that time I could only afford a 15 year old car with 125,000+ miles. Who knows what kind of maintenance the previous owners did?

Now being self employed as a diesel mechanic I know better. I run Shell Rotella T in most of my customers rigs unless they request something else. The correct oil is cheaper then metal and changing it on time is cheap insurance. As the old commercial use to say "You can pay me now or, you can pay me later" boy is that true!

Thanks for the info...

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